Susan:
>"most IDs" want
>those religious views accepted and taught as science
>and they simply can'tbe without violating church and
>state separation.
Bertvan:
Hi Susan. Funny. I hear IDs continually state that they are only interested
in the design, and want to leave the nature of the designers to the
individual.
Susan:
>You don't seem to realize that that is the crux of the matter.
>Civil rights are not accorded to citizens based upon
> whether they are rude or polite. In
>fact, people whose civil rights are being violated tend
>to get pretty rude about it. And people have
>constitutionally guaranteed right to practice,
>teach and learn science without religious interference.
Bertvan
I haven't actually heard anyone urging that ID be taught in schools. All I
hear is people fearing they *might* do such a thing. Actually, I prefer not
allowing it in schools. Kids are much more interested in some illicit idea
than the indoctrination that often takes place in some classrooms.
Susan:
>You have aserted that organisms direct their own mutations and
>therefore their own evoluon. So explain extinction to me.
Bertvan: -
I found Hoyle's Intelligent Universe interesting. Your beliefs seem pretty
rigid, so I can't imagine your interest in mine, unless you are just looking
for something to "attack". My belief is that the "intelligence" of ID is
contained within life itself. (Known to some of us as indeterminate free
will) Life is designed, alright, but the genius of the design is the manner
in which it avoids perfection, and thus allows for growth. Since the nature
of such "intelligence" is not at the present time susceptible to scientific
analysis, there is plenty of room in it for anyone's god. I don't know what
you want explained about extinction? Seems pretty obvious to me. Death of
individuals and extinction of species are important details of the design,
allowing for growth.
That's just my personal belief, no evidence, and I have no desire to impose
it upon you or anyone else. I have occasionally felt gratified to hear
similar thoughts expressed by others, and it is for that reason I throw it
out there for anyone who is interested.
I notice that the non Christian ID supporters now outnumber the Christians in
this discussion group, 2 to 1. Hope you don't feel as threatened by us as
you seem to fear the Christians. I have to tell you, Susan, I have actually
been in the presence of people who prayed, out loud, and I wasn't the least
bit traumatized by it. But I suppose some people are more easily traumatized
than others. I even deliberately exposed my children to religion when they
were small, and they each grew up with their own individual philosophy, world
view, or whatever.
Bertvan
http://members.aol.com/bertvan
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