Re: "Apparent" Trap

From: Ralph Krumdieck (ralphkru@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU)
Date: Mon Sep 25 2000 - 12:51:29 EDT

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    >
    >Ralph:
    > >I still don't know why agnostics would be attracted to ID. If there is
    > an ID
    > >with some sort of overall plan, then the history of life on earth is the
    > >history of that plan in action. So far, the defining feature seems to be
    > >extinction, in various degrees of severity. Why is extinction by chance
    > >worse than extinction by design? I know you think if a species goes extinct
    > >that's a sign that they were a mistake, outside of the plan. If that's
    > true,
    > >how do we know we're not "outside of the plan" and headed for eventual
    > >"error correction"?
    >ralph
    >
    >Hi Ralph,
    >One reason this agnostic is attracted to ID is exasperation with "chance
    >variation and natural selection". I am interested in many people's thoughts
    >on evolution, including panspermia, Lamarckism, Holism -- and Fred Hoyle's
    >"The Intelligent Universe". To me, "intelligence" is the significant part
    >of ID. I doubt evolution was the result of some rigid "plan". However the
    >entire process is loaded with "intelligence". I believe nature is the
    >result of intelligence and not the result of a series of chance events.

    I can understand and appreciate a wide-ranging interest but it does
    seem like you have settled on a particular personal interpretation of the facts
    of evolution. If evolution was not the result of some rigid "plan" then was
    it a flexible "plan" or no "plan" at all? If it was a flexible plan, how
    do we distinguish it from a series of chance events? If there was no
    "plan", why do we need to postulate an ID?

    >(I
    >don't see how one can say any part of nature, such as extinction, is "worse"
    >or "better". If I gave the impression that was my belief, I didn't make
    >myself clear.)

    I was referring to your belief that ID is a "better" explanation than evolution
    for the history of life (and, therefore, extinctions). Sorry if I didn't
    make myself
    clear.

    >I probably disagree with most of Philip Johnson's political
    >positions and views on religion. However I do agree when he charges that
    >Darwinism has been used as an attempt to impose materialism upon society as
    >"scientific truth".

    I have never seen any proof for these conspiracy theories.

    >It is my personal observation that most of the people
    >passionately fighting ID are engaged in some juvenile, paranoid crusade
    >against religion.

      Like you, I am unconvinced by name-calling.

    >Being committed to neither atheism nor theism, I would
    >protest either being imposed upon society as "truth", scientific or
    >otherwise.

    Hmm. You support a recall of all missionaries, I suppose? A
    ban on evangelism?

    > At the moment no one is trying to impose ID upon anyone. It is
    >being suggested as an alternative way of viewing nature. Materialists are
    >still free to dream up their elaborate "chance" explanations. That doesn't
    >appear good enough for them. They seem to want to prevent anyone even
    >considering anything but "chance variation and natural selection".
    >
    >Bertvan

    I don't think ID is being suggested "as an alternative way of viewing nature".
    That's playing down what they're after, IMHO. They want ID recognized as
    a *scientific explanation* of the facts of evolution. That's considerably
    different.
    ralph



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