RE: No death before the fall theology

From: Debbie Mann (deborahjmann@insightbb.com)
Date: Sun Apr 27 2003 - 01:51:09 EDT

  • Next message: Jim Eisele: "Re: No death before the fall theology"

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jim Eisele [mailto:jeisele@starpower.net]
    Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 5:46 PM
    To: Dr. Blake Nelson
    Cc: Debbie Mann; asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: Re: No death before the fall theology

    Hi Blake,

    >Jim,
    >
    >It is really silly to rant when your theology is
    >simply wrong. Human death as the result of original
    >sin is certainly not the central point of the NT.
    <snip>

    Jim Writes:

    It feels a little bit strange lecturing a Christian
    about the Bible. Christians get locked into a
    certain mentality and have a hard time escaping.

    Blake, you are just ignoring the words in the Bible.
    Gen 3 and Rom 5 and 1Cor 15.

    Debbie Replies:

    By your choice of verses, the logical conclusion in Rom 5: 21 is that if we
    except grace we will live eternally in a physical form. We know this is not
    true. If the life that is spoken of is not of this body, why should the
    death be?

    I find ICor15 to be quite clearly talking of spiritual matters as well - the
    seed, our physical body, must die in order for the new plant, our spiritual
    selves, to be given life. The whole chapter is very much on the spiritual.

    Also, see Ephesians 2:1. And you who were dead in trespasses and sins.
    Certainly, if the people were physically dead due to sin, Paul was wasting
    his breath talking to them.

    Jim Writes:

    Your rationale creates problems. Suffering is
    supposed to be humans' fault, not the fault of a
    holy God.

    Debbie asks: Says who?

    Nope, Blake. You can only be right if the Bible
    is wrong.

    Debbie replies: I don't know where you received your teaching. It does not
    parallel mine, nor does it seem to reflect the Bible contectually. I have
    heard many preachers through the years use examples that were blatantly
    false. (Really, false, not just not true.) I have also heard many that were
    really asking us to lean hard to see their point - probably leaning way out
    on a limb. I wonder if you have not been subjected to many verses out of
    context.

    Jim

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