From: Debbie Mann (deborahjmann@insightbb.com)
Date: Sun Apr 27 2003 - 01:41:05 EDT
Debbie writes
>When I was in school, 96% was often an A and 38% was occasionally a passing
>grade. Yet, attackers of The Bible seem to believe that if they can find
one
>fault, or show that 5% is inconclusive, vague or impossible to take
>literally - that the portion that has been verified by multiple sources can
>be ignored and the portion which is unverified is definitely wrong.
Jim Writes:
Perhaps this was your best point. So you want to
label skeptics as nit-pickers, do you?
Your Bible teaches that the cause of human death
is sin. We know this is false. The Bible attributes
words about creation directly to God that we know are
false.
Debbie Replies:
I want to go back to the big point first, and then I will answer this
specific one.
The Bible was discounted by many experts for many years. During that same
time, others,not necessarily of religious bent, used it as a resource.
Archeologists began finding evidence of cultures, the Philistines for
example, for which there had been no record elsewhere. They have since found
proof of a large civilization involving many cities. Other archeologists
found items from the Bible. Some of them were little, unimportant things,
like a weight called a pym. There were weapons, other things. The record in
the Bible existed first, large portions unsubstantiated for centuries, until
archeologists began digging the stuff up.
The plots, philosophy and poetry of the Bible have been the themes of
countless works of art - plays, literature, paintings.
Whether or not you believe anything at all about any divine inspiration, it
is a marvelous book.
Now, specifics:
Dad says, "He'll be the death of me."
Divorcee says, "I'm dead inside, I can't feel a thing."
AA leader says, "Stay off that stuff, it's death."
Are they lying? Is it false to say that the child of a molester has suffered
death, even though the child continues to draw breath?
There are different kinds of death and different ways of speaking.
If I explained a philosophical concept to:
1. A Harlem Black
2. A New York artist
3. A MidWest scholar
4. A Tennessee hills farmer
5. A wealthy southern person.
(Notice, we're talking one country and one language here.)
I explained the concept to them successfully, they totally understood and
they wrote it down so that their peers totally understood. How similar do
you believe the accounts would be? Same concept, same origin, same language,
same country.
Now take it to not only different countries and different languages, but
different stages of development and far, far different cultures.
More specifically on death: doing evil to others destroys oneself. What goes
around comes around. The soul cannot prosper in a dark place. aka Sin causes
death.
Jim writes:
Normal, honest reaction: no all-powerful being is
behind the Bible.
Debbie replies: Human beings wrote, translated and edited the Bible. They
also have interpreted it. The Bible is an instruction book. It is filled
with parables and illustrations. It is filled with cause and effect of human
life. An all powerful being is the subject of the Bible. Human beings
decided what material comprised the book. The Book is about Holy men of God
inspired by the Holy Spirit, and about quite a few other men and women as
well. It is the story of our religious heritage as Christians, and as Jews,
and, to a lesser extent, as Moslems as well. The Moslems call Christians and
Jews, as well as themselves, 'people of the Book'.
Jim Writes:
Frequent Christian reaction: Maybe a day isn't a
day. Or, maybe Genesis genealogies have gaps. Some
Christians, to their credit, admit the Bible begins
with mythology. They want to say the OT is false
but the NT is true. Isn't the same god supposed to
be behind both of these?
Debbie Replies: I don't know of any Christian using the term 'false' in
reference to the OT. 'False' is the opposite of 'True.' The word seems
inappropriate. Romeo and Juliet is not false. It also is not true. It is a
timeless illustration as to the damage hate can do. It is a lesson in life.
Further, in regard to OT vs. NT, there is actually a great debate as to many
of the details in the New Testament. Nebuchadnezzar's relationship to the
Hebrews in the Old Testament has been well documented from sources other
than Judeo-Christian doctrine. You seem to want to compartmentalize into
absolutes. My response is, "It ain't gonna happen." We are never, on this
earth as human beings, going to know exactly who wrote which words with what
divine inspiration. As time goes on, I believe that archeology is going to
confirm more and more of the Bible, and that human experience is going to
confirm more and more of the ideas and instruction of both Old and New
testament. But God is not going to come down and say, "Well, you see, in
4532 BCE the term @#$%@ was used in reference to $#@*(( and in 2347 the term
had come to mean this other thing and so really, if you were to put it into
today's lingo this verse says ......"
Jim Says:
Physical death as a consequence of sin is central
Christian doctrine, not some trivial census number.
And the Bible got it wrong. When Christians are
confronted with this, generally the silence or the
dishonesty begins.
Debbie Replies:
Believe it or not. I was raised in church forever. I taught Vacation bible
School as a teenager and as an adult, have taught Sunday School, taken many
seminars, buy many sermon tapes, take and teach Bible Studies. I was
Methodist til age 12, Presbyterian until 20, Grace Brethren for a decade,
various non-denomination Christian churches, currently I have been Christian
Reformed for a number of years. Physical death was never expounded to me as
being a consequence of sin. Spiritual death was. Not experiencing the
resurrections was given as the ultimate death as the consequence of
unforgiven sin. Forgiveness is readily available through the blood of Jesus
Christ.
(I read a great deal. I am not unaware of the physical death philosophy by
any means. However, in years of Christian instruction, I was never, ever
taught it. Always, I was taught that the wages of sin is spiritual death,
manifested as separation from God.)
Jim Writes:
This is not one fault, Debbie. Supposedly it was the
very reason for the NT.
Jim
Debbie Asks:
Jim, what religion, if any, were your parents a member of when you were age
6?
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