From: George Murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Sat Apr 26 2003 - 13:17:35 EDT
douglas.hayworth@perbio.com wrote:
>
> Hello friends:
>
> Can anyone point me to a good reference that specifically addresses the
> creationist theological assertion that no scientific theory or theology can
> be valid if it allows for there to be physical death before the fall?
>
> It seems that conservative christians are unwilling to allow for any ideas
> about science/creation that might result in a slippery slope affecting this
> doctrine. I myself cannot fathom how the physical creation could possibly
> not include death at all times in it existence since it has included life
> (whether or not you think that it evolved sensu Van Till's RFEP, as I do,
> or that it was created in six days with all the current species and
> components in place. And, theologically, I don't see how the absence of
> physical death before the fall is necessary to an otherwise fully
> conventional, reformed, and solid christian theology about the consequences
> for sin. Isn't the salient consequence of sin in fact spiritual separation
> from God and his eternal life for us in heaven?
>
> I'm not looking for scientific arguments against this no-death-before-fall
> (NDBF) view. Rather, I need help putting together strictly theological
> arguments and a articulating a overall theology that affirms solid
> christian theology without NDBF.
This doesn't give a detailed treatment of the issue you raise, but it may be
helpful to note that in his treatise _On the Incarnation_ Athanasius, in the 4th
century, seems to have thought that humans would have been subject to physical death,
though not spiritual death & dissolution, even if they had not sinned. In Gen.2:17 the
penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge is "you shall surely die (/moth tamuth/)."
But the Septuagint translated this into literal Greek as "dying you shall die" &
Athanasius understood this as a two-fold death. "But by 'dying ye shall die,' what else
could be meant than not dying merely, but also abiding ever in the corrupption of
death?" (p.38 in Vol.4 of _The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d Series_. The
discussion in the Prolegomena of this volume, especially on p.lxxi, is helpful in
explaining A's view.)
Of course this argument is based on a bad translation of the Hebrew. My point
here isn't to defend A's interpretation of this verse but to point out the view of
one of the major church fathers to the effect that human death (& one would think that
of other animals, though he doesn't discuss this) was not contingent upon the entrance
of sin into the world.
Shalom,
George
George L. Murphy
gmurphy@raex.com
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
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