Re: No death before the fall theology

From: Don Winterstein (dfwinterstein@msn.com)
Date: Mon Apr 28 2003 - 06:22:57 EDT

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    Jim Eisele wrote:
    >
    > Your Bible teaches that the cause of human death
    > is sin. We know this is false. The Bible attributes
    > words about creation directly to God that we know are
    > false.
    >
    > Normal, honest reaction: no all-powerful being is
    > behind the Bible.
    >
    > Frequent Christian reaction: Maybe a day isn't a
    > day. Or, maybe Genesis genealogies have gaps. Some
    > Christians, to their credit, admit the Bible begins
    > with mythology. They want to say the OT is false
    > but the NT is true. Isn't the same god supposed to
    > be behind both of these?
    >
    > Physical death as a consequence of sin is central
    > Christian doctrine, not some trivial census number.
    > And the Bible got it wrong. When Christians are
    > confronted with this, generally the silence or the
    > dishonesty begins.

    Jim makes some points that Christians should acknowledge are valid. In a
    sense, practical Christian theology is in crisis, and many parish leaders
    have heads buried in sand. "Death" in the Bible most of the time refers to
    physical death, and resurrection refers to physical resurrection. When Paul
    says death came by one man and resurrection by another, he speaks of
    physical death and physical resurrection. To say he means spiritual death
    and physical resurrection would be nonsense. The fall into sin was a fall
    from a perfect world where no one died into a flawed world where everyone
    dies, and Jesus reversed the consequences of this fall for those who accept
    him. That's the biblical reference frame. That's almost certainly the frame
    in which the apostle Paul operated.

    The Bible is indeed "wrong" in that the cosmic spiritual and physical
    reference frame one deduces from a straightforward reading is incorrect.
    And most lay Christians as I perceive them are not going to be content with
    anything other than a straightforward reading. That's why they receive
    creation research publicists with enthusiasm. My perception is that most
    Christians who have abandoned a straightforward reading of the Bible have
    largely lost missionary zeal. They don't try to convert anyone, partly
    because they're not so sure their interpretation is correct. Combine these
    ingredients and you get crisis: the Church is subsisting in a long-term
    untenable state.

    What will it take to get the Church back to a long-term tenable state?
    Paradigm change. But the necessary paradigm change will have to come with
    authority, not from a theology that draws its strength from human reason.
    Spiritual authority comes in only one form: revelation. And the revelation
    will have to say that some previous revelation needs updating. In other
    words, revelation is not necessarily what people have thought it was. God
    is not necessarily who people have thought he was.

    God is behind the Bible. Whether he is "all-powerful" or not, "infinite" or
    not, or has any of those other imaginary philosophical attributes or not, may be
    debatable; but he's powerful enough. Just because he's behind the Bible
    doesn't necessarily mean that a straightforward reading of it will give us a
    correct cosmic reference frame. The Bible is a human document. We accept
    that God was behind the humans who wrote it, but exactly what that means is
    not clear. We know it doesn't mean a straightforward reading will give us a
    correct cosmic reference frame.

    The necessary paradigm change involves recognizing that God is a sexual
    person. One of his primary goals with his creation is to engage in a kind
    of spiritual sexual intercourse with his people. A sexual partner is not
    someone whom the lover grows up with, like a sister, but someone who has
    grown up independently of the lover. That is why God's people come into
    existence in a way that seems largely independent of him. One of Jesus'
    primary roles is to make God attractive, so that people will want him.
    Individual sins are probably less annoying to God than people have thought.
    In return for her commitment to him, God is willing to overlook flaws in his
    lover. His lover typically is something like the Church taken as an
    organism.

    God would not be very attractive if a short life span was all people had to
    look forward to, so through Jesus he has assured us that this life is not
    all there is.

    God's sexuality does not mean that God is lust-driven. God has strong
    desires and needs, but he never lets those dominate him. One thing God's
    sexuality means is that the primary function of spiritual sexual intercourse
    is quite other than procreation or recreation. Basically, sexual intercourse
    has psychological and spiritual meaning: It enables persons to redefine
    themselves in one another and merge.

    Don



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