IDT criticized: Meta list

From: FMAJ1019@aol.com
Date: Sat Sep 30 2000 - 14:37:09 EDT

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    I ran across the meta-list reflector and found some interesting comments that
    reflect some of my feelings on intelligent design quite well. But it also
    makes for a great discussion document.

    http://listserv.omni-list.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind00&L=metaviews&P=R14265

    In the following the author argues that recognizing human design does not
    mean that one can recognize reliably supernatural design. One of the
    arguments made by Wesley also address this:

    "This is also my viewpoint on the significance of the SETI
     project: SETI identifies certain attributes of radio signals
     that are known from human use of radio signals, and SETI does
     not show us any detection of a novel design/designer
     relationship."

    http://x74.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=490853642.2

    " This confusion in "intelligent design theory"--both affirming
     and denying "recourse to the supernatural"--points to the fundamental
     fallacy in the argument as arising from equivocation in the use of
     the term "intelligent design." Both Dembski and Michael Behe use
     the term "intelligent design" without clearly distinguishing "HUMANLY
     intelligent design" from "DIVINELY intelligent design." We have all
     observed how the human mind can cause effects that are humanly
     designed, and from such observable effects, we can infer the
     existence of humanly intelligent designers. But insofar as we have
     never directly observed a divine intelligence (that is, an omniscient
     and omnipotent intelligence) causing effects that are divinely
     designed, we cannot infer a divinely intelligent designer from our
     common human experience."

    [...]

    Larry Arnhart
     Department of Political Science
     Northern Illinois University

    [...]

    Here the author complains about the lack of any pathways or research to
    support ID's theses. If one wants to provide a scientific alternative to
    Darwinism then complaining about Darwinism is not enough.

    " Intelligent design poses a direct challenge. In "Darwin's Black
     Box", Michael Behe pays lip service to common descent but he did not
     show that his ideas compatible with it and in practice they are not
     (this is not the principal criticism that has been made of the book).
     Dembski himself rejects common descent while also claiming:
     "Reinstating design within science can only enrich science. All the
     tried and true tools of science remain intact". But mainstream
     biologists consider the assumption of common descent to be one of
     the best tried and also one of the truest (fact *fact* *FACT!*).
     Skeptics are free to complain about dogmatism but it would be much
     more productive if instead they devoted their energies to developing
     either (1) a version of ID theory that is compatible with common
     descent or (2) an empirically validated criterion for differentiating
     organisms that do have a common ancestor from those that do not.
     The first two chapters of Darwin's "Origin of Species", provide a
     compelling argument that it will be impossible to find such a
     criterion. I sincerely and genuinely wish the skeptics luck in their
     attempts."

    [...]

    Daniel Falush
     Department of Biology, Faculty of Science
     Kyushu University

    Cliff Hamrick raises some interesting issues:

    among which

    [...]

    "Dr. Dembski, despite his claims of intelligent design as a
     scientific theory, is not conducting scientific research. Science is
     based on the principle of testable, falsifiable hypotheses. I will
     give the proponents of intelligent design credit for having a
     well-thought out, perfectly logical hypothesis that the universe and
     the living things in it are too specifically complex to have arisen
     by random chance alone. I agree with the premise of this hypothesis
     and that has bolstered my faith in a divine power. However, it is
     not scientific until some means of testing that hypothesis can be
     shown. I have never seen, though Dembski and cohorts profess to
     possess, any viable means of testing this hypothesis. Dembski makes
     claims of a mathematical model based on probability statistics that
     can sort out designed objects from undesigned ones. However, I have
     never seen any articles that enumerate and explain this model so that
     scientists can review it for it's scientific merit. Dr. Dembski also
     is quite free with his use of the word 'theory'. As someone who
     considers one of his areas of specialization as the philosophy of
     science, Dr. Dembski should understand that a theory, in the
     scientific sense, is a broad idea with implications reaching into
     many areas of science and is based on a long list of scientific
     research supported by data. Considering that one of the purposes of
     his work is "the promotion and advancement of research involving the
     development and application of mathematical tools from probability,
     complexity, information, stochastic process and recursion theory.
     These tools will be used to analyze various cosmological, physical,
     chemical and biological structures and processes, with a view toward
     the empirical detection of design, if it is there to be found", I
     have to say that the research on how to test the hypothesis has yet
     to begin. So how can an untested hypothesis suddenly become a theory?"

    Indeed, since ID has been placed on a time schedule (Wedge) I wonder how
    science can be forced to follow such a schedule. Especially since science is
    tentative and data supporting or falsifying it is often elusive.



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