Re: Examples of natural selection generating CSI

From: Wesley R. Elsberry (welsberr@inia.cls.org)
Date: Tue Sep 19 2000 - 00:17:43 EDT

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    Paul and I have discussed this topic before in email, so I'll
    post some of my comments.

    Paul's objection 1.D.: No known instances of CSI produced by natural
    selection are known.

    Let's explore CSI a little closer. We have two criteria that
    combine to yield Dembski's CSI: complexity at or above 500
    bits and match to a specification. I will call this CSI_500
    in order to introduce a slightly different perspective on CSI.
    Complexity is obviously distributed along the ordinal line of
    bits. Solutions to particular problems may represent CSI at a
    lower threshold than Dembski's step function of 500 bits
    proposes, but this should be clearly noted via use of a
    modifier to relate the level of complexity involved, like
    "CSI_250" or "CSI_50".

    No one questions the ability of natural selection to produce
    solutions at lower complexity levels. Whether one admits
    "CSI_50" or "CSI_250" as supported by the available evidence
    does not matter. What matters is that this level of
    performance is properly credited to the action of natural
    selection.

    Natural selection, though, is notoriously difficult to
    empirically isolate as a mechanism of action. The level of
    evidence needed to both implicate natural selection and to
    exclude genetic drift is high. Indirect evidence, such as the
    presence of linkage disequilibrium in a population, serves as
    an indicator of the action of natural selection, but
    biologists tend to want to see a clear relation between a
    cause of selection and an effect in distribution of traits in
    a population.

    Taking it as possible that adaptive features of organisms are
    designed and installed by an intelligent agent via a mechanism
    other than natural selection means that we cannot use as
    examples of the efficacy of NS those phenomena in question,
    unless and until we have in hand the same kind of evidence
    that suffices for Galapagos finch beak changes. This may
    simply never be available. But if all that is available for
    the alternative hypothesis of ID is the simple fact of
    CSI_500, then I doubt that many biologists will feel compelled
    to exclude natural selection as a live possibility on those
    grounds alone.

    What we are then left with is an argument that we should
    exclude from consideration a mechanism of generating solutions
    that we can observe to happen in modern populations and which
    produces CSI at lower complexity levels during our brief and
    spotty periods of observation in favor of a mechanism which
    has no independent evidence of operation and which is not
    currently observable. (That is, the intelligent agent
    putatively responsible for the biological system under
    question is not known from current observation or from
    independent evidence of the period in question.) I think that
    such an argument will find it rough going to convince
    knowledgeable people of its merits.

    We should do the calculations to determine the CSI level of
    various examples of NS in action, or general "descent with
    modification" in action. Things like bacteria digesting nylon
    with novel enzymes or the emergence of the impedance-matching
    apparatus of the mammalian middle ear need to be explored
    quantitatively. A spread of CSI levels may indicate an
    approach to the CSI_500 level that Dembski sets, and indicate
    that no essential qualitative difference exists between the
    capability of natural evolutionary algorithms and intelligent
    agency.

    Note: Dembski does discuss justifying CSI at lower bit levels
    than the universal small probability bound of 500 bits in TDI.
    If the universal small probability bound is met, though,
    justification is simpler.

    Also, it would focus the discussion wonderfully if either Paul
    or Bill would provide a worked example of running some scenario
    involving natural selection through the Design Inference. We
    are urged to "do the calculation" at the end of TDI, but there
    seems to be a dearth of serious examples with a complete set
    of calculations per each.

    Wesley



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