Reflectorites
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:33:58 -0700, Ralph Krumdieck wrote:
RK>Hi Bertvan. I've been lurking for some time (and learning a lot!) but
>always with the intention of eventually contributing so here's my first.
Welcome to the Reflector to Ralph.
[...]
RK>The last sentence again intrigues me. You say death and extinction (that
>seems to be the same thing) were "necessary additions"(?). Christian
>thought says that the world was initially created without death, which
>came into the world as a result of sin. ...
This is YEC doctrine. It is not "Christian thought" in the sense that all (or
even most) Christians believe it. The Bible does not teach it and AFAIK no
Christian creed states it.
The historic Christian position has AFAIK always been that it is only
*humans* who would not have died if Adam had not sinned. The "no
death before the Fall" doctrine is AFAIK a YEC invention in the
20th century. (This is not meant to be a slur on YECs BTW, just a
statement of fact).
Thus the old-Earth creationist Hugh Ross points out:
"`Death through sin' is not equivalent to physical death. Romans
5:12 says, "Sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
sinned." Some have interpreted this verse as implying no death of
any kind for any creature existed before Adam's sin and, therefore,
only a brief time could have transpired between the creation of the
first life-forms and Adam's sin. ... Are birds and mammals
condemned to "death through sin"? Of all life on the earth, only
humans have earned the title sinner." Only humans can experience
"death through sin." Note that the death Adam experienced is
carefully qualified the text as being visited on "all men"-not on
plants and animals, just on human beings (Romans 5:12,18-19)."
(Ross H.N., "Creation and Time," 1994, pp60-61)
Another old-Earth creationist Stoner agrees:
"The evidence says there was animal death before Adam. Although
this disagrees with a popular scriptural theory it is not in
disagreement with Scripture itself. Scripture gives no reason why
animals couldn't have died before Adam's sin. ... nowhere does the
Bible say that animals die as a consequence of human sin. ... In
support of Argument #6, young-earth creationists often cite
Romans 5:12: ... just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because
all sinned- ... When young-earth creationists read that death"
entered through sin, they interpret this as "all death" even though
this verse specifically names *all men* as its target. Human death
certainly entered through Adam's sin but this verse doesn't
specifically address animal or plant death." (Stoner D.W., "A New
Look at an Old Earth," 1997, p.51. Emphasis in original).
YECs even admit that the Bible says that "death was ... pronounced only
on man", but they just *assume* that it must have been "extended likewise to
his dominion" on their YEC theological grounds:
"Although the sentence of death was specifically pronounced only
on man and on the serpent used by Satan as the vehicle of
temptation, the most obvious implication is that this curse on the
master of creation extended likewise to his dominion. This fact is
also strongly implied by the New Testament expositions of the Fall.
Paul says: "By *man* came death" (I Corinthians 15:21) and in
another place, "By *one man*, sin entered into the world, and
death by sin" (Romans 5:12)." (Whitcomb J.C. & Morris H.M.,
"The Genesis Flood," 1993, rerint, p.484. Emphasis in original.)
Steve
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Stephen E. (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ Email: sejones@iinet.net.au
3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ Web: http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
Warwick 6024 -> *_,--\_/ Phone: +61 8 9448 7439
Perth, Western Australia v "Test everything." (1 Thess. 5:21)
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