In a message dated 9/15/2000 9:00:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nalonso@megatribe.com writes:
<< In a message dated 9/13/2000 9:56:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nalonso@megatribe.com writes:
<< Nelson:
Well one of the ways design is evident is in how something is built or
assembled. If I see a group of rocks that form a sequence specific pattern
which says "Welcome to the Rockies" I eliminate natural pathways and make a
design inference. But what I was talking about above was how Irreducibly
Complex systems eliminate natural processes as a cause and offers
intelligent design as a plausible alternative.
>>
Sure. But in the case of IC that's what you have to show. We all agree that
design can sometimes be infered quite reliably. IC does not eliminate
natural
processes as a cause, it claims that it does but it has not shown this. It
does not even show that ID is a plausible and useful alternative.
You seem to overestimate the power of ID and IC. Perhaps that's caused by
the
unsupported claims like the ones you make above?
Nelson:
Can you show how what I say above is not supported? You have to first
support your claim that IC systems can evolve. You cannot evolve something
that is totally ineffective below the sum of it's parts. >>
You are trying to switch the burden of proof again. You claim that IC systems
can eliminate natural processes as a cause but I argue that you have not done
this. Since it has been shown that IC itself is not a perse reliable detector
of ID it is therefor required to show that any particular IC system could not
have evolved. I have already shown an example of a natural pathway for IC and
I am sure others exist as well (more on that in a future posting). You can
indeed evolve something like that by using a temporary support which is later
removed, resulting in an IC system. Your fault lies in your assumption that
the reverse path is a straight removal of parts when in fact the first step
could be an addition of a part and then a dismantling of the rest.
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