ID vs.?

From: Bertvan@aol.com
Date: Thu Aug 31 2000 - 14:31:15 EDT

  • Next message: Richard Wein: "Re: ID vs. ?"

    Subj: Re: ID vs. ?
    > >
    >>Bertvan:
    >>If there is only one earth, there was no "survival of the fittest".

    >Chris
    >There's no "survival of the fittest" in the way individual organisms
    >evolved? Again: What is the evidence for this? I agree that the Earth has
    >evolved (i.e., changed over time), but how is this like the evolution of
    >individual organisms?

    Hi Chris,
    There is some evidence that "survival of the fittest" might have played a
    part in micro-evolution. The question of whether it could account for
    increased complexity is being debated. I, personally, have seen no
    convincing "evidence" that RM&NS creates complexity. RM&NS is merely the
    only naturalistic assumption materialists can think of to account for the
    creation of complexity. If it satisfies you, fine.

    The earth not only adjusts to changes; it also has increased in complexity.
    That increase in complexity was entirely internal, and did not involved
    competition between competing "earths". I suspect the increase in
    complexity of individual organisms is also internal, and has very little to
    do with RM&NS. People mutter about hox genes being responsible, but the
    truth is, we have no idea how hox genes might create complexity. Our
    understanding of these processes is rudimentary. To attribute it to "natural
    order" or Kauffman's "order for free" seems the same (to me) as attributing
    it to "intelligent design". No one is questioning evolution defined as
    "change over time" took place. It is RM&NS, commonly referred to as
    Darwinism. (Darwin's only contribution to evolutionary theory was RM&NS!!!)

    I am not going to repeat evidence for or against the Gaia concept as
    expressed by scientists. It is available in great detail for all sides of
    the controversy, and I have nothing original to add. My purpose in posting
    on this board is to insist that one doesn't even have to be religious to
    question "random variation and natural selection" as an explanation of
    nature's complexity. I feel compelled to repeat that as long as people
    declare that anyone supporting ID is a creationist. Or, if we all can agree
    publicly that anyone is a creationist who doesn't believe life arose
    accidentally from inert chemicals. In that case, creationists would probably
    greatly out-number naturalists - and people would proudly acknowledge being
    "creationists".
    Bertvan
    http://members.aol.com/bertvan



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