On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:51:00 -0500, Steve Clark wrote:
[...]
>>SC>Oh grow up.
>SJ>It seems that when faced with a gross breach of Christian ethics by a fellow
>>TE/EC (namely secretly telling a demonstrably false story against a fellow
>>Christian who is a creationist, with the evident intent of discrediting him
>>so his message is ignored), the response of TE/EC is not to remonstrate
>>against their fellow TE/EC, but to attack the creationist for having the
>>temerity to protest!
SC>Nope. The subject matter of your post had nothing to do with my response.
>Rather it was your tone that elicited my plea.
Steve should try pulling the other leg. I did not notice him complain of his
fellow TE/EC Glenn's "tone" when he called Bertvan "scum on the bottom
of the ethics pool"!
Indeed, Steve is here saying that the "subject matter" of my post, which was
about "a gross breach of Christian ethics by a fellow TE/EC" is OK by him,
but the "tone" of my post calling attention to that gross breach of Christian
ethics is not OK.
The fact is that the "subject matter" of my post had *everything* to do
with Steve's "response" and his claim that he was only concerned about my
"tone" is just a smokescreen to try to deflect attention from it.
SC>You could have stated your
>complaint and focused on the issue without the whining and your point would
>have been made..
Steve's perception that I am "whining" is all in his head. All along I have
pointed out that I am not "hurt" at at all by Glenn's actions of posting
a demonstrably false story about me allegedly driving away all the "powerful
thinkers on this list" within 3 months of me joining.
Indeed I am *glad* that Glenn got caught out telling a false story about me!
I regard it as a God-send (literally).
SC>But your self-righteous indignation detracts from the
>substance of your message. So, grow up!
See above. Steve is not concerned that my "tone" "detracts from the
substance of" my "message". Steve is *trying* to detract "from the
substance of my message"!
It says something about the adverse effect of naturalistic evolutionary
thinking on otherwise fine Christians like Steve, that they can pervert
*real* "righteous indignation" about a very *real* wrongdoing by a fellow
TE/EC against a brother Christian who is a creationist, into "self-righteous
indignation". Steve should reflect on Isaiah 5:20!
Indeed the real problem here is TE/EC *lack* of "indignation" against the
*real* wrongdoer, namely Glenn, a fellow TE/EC.
But I repeat, I am not complaining about it *at all* in the sense of being
personally hurt, because I wasn't. What I am doing is pointing about the
failure of TE/ECs to apply Christian principles to Glenn's gross breach of
Christian (let alone the world's) ethics.
And I am not doing this for any personal sympathy. I am doing it to make a
critique of the TE/ECs position, in the same way that other positions have
been critiques on this Reflector, eg. YEC, PC, etc.
My critique of the TE/EC position is that Christian TE/ECs who are excusing
their fellow TE/EC Glenn's gross breach of Christian ethics, have been taken
"captive" by a "hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human
tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ"
(Col 2:8), namely scientific materialism-naturalism. This captivity is such
that TE/ECs do not even *see* that there is a gross breach of Christian ethics,
and they attack the one upon the breach was made.
To TE/ECs who excuse Glenn's reprhensible conduct, the "E" controls the
Christian "T"! This is a legitimate critique of the TE/EC position, and I
expect TE/ECs to debate it rationally and not counter-attack with ad
hominemns. If I am wide of the mark, they should be able to refute my
hypothesis, and/or offer an alternative explanation.
Please not that I am trying not blame the TE/ECs themselves personally. I
assume that TE/ECs are otherwise fine Christians, who may sincerely *think*
that they are doing right (Jn 16:2). I blame the "hollow and deceptive
philosophy", namely scientific materialism-naturalism, which has taken
TE/ECs "captive"!
Steve
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"Present-day ultra-Darwinism, which is so sure of itself, impresses
incompletely informed biologists, misleads them, and inspires fallacious
interpretations." (Grasse P.-P., "Evolution of Living Organisms: Evidence
for a New Theory of Transformation", Academic Press: New York NY,
1977, p6)
Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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