On Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:09:37 -0700 (MST) you wrote:
[...]
>Russ, do women have seminal emissions? No, this is not a joke (though
>when I first heard of the point I hope to make I thought it was).
>
>Of course they don't (mind you, my clinical expertise is at the other
>"end" of the "tube" so I might be wrong ;-)). But Russ that is EXACTLY
>what the NT states in Hebrews 11:11. Yes, that great Faith chapter
>states unequivocally that Sarah K-A-T-A-B-O-L-A-N S-P-E-R-M-A-T-O-S.
>Translated it means she "had a seminal emission." For that matter, the
>Greek used is the technical term for an ejaculation. And proof of this
>is that the NIV has INACCURATELY slipped Abraham into the verse to cover
>up the embarrassment of what the Greek NT actually records. But again go
>to a Greek NT and you will see there is not ONE manuscript that has
>Abraham in it.
>So Russ--the Bible has errors of fact in it. The Double Seed Theory of
>reproduction was the state of the art science in the first century. It
>is erroneous, BUT IT GOT INTO GOD'S WORD. And please, go check it out
>for yourself.
I have no problem with God speaking through 1st century science. But
I am not persuaded that Denis is right in his NT Gk exegesis that
katabolan spermatos means "had a seminal emission.".
My Interlinear says:
"By faith also herself Sarah power for conception of seed received
even beyond time of age..."
This seems to make perfect sense to me in that she did receive
a seminal ejaculation from Abraham.
My Vincent's Word Studies in the NT says of Heb 11:11:
"To conceive seed (eis katabolen spermatos). In every other instance
in the NT katabole means `foundation', and appears in the phrase
katabole kosmou `foundation of the world'. Originally it means
`throwing down'; hence, the depositing of the male seed into the womb.
The sentence may be explained either, `received strength as regards
the deposition of seed,' to fructify it; or `received strength for the
foundation of a posterity', sperma being rendered in accordance with
ch. ii.16; xi. 18, and katabole in the sense of `foundation', as
everywhere else in the NT.'
My Vines Expository Dictionary of NT Words, says under CONCEIVE:
"...
(2) The phrase eis katabolen, lit. for a casting down, ot in, is used
of conception in Heb 11:11"
My Theological Wordbook of the NT says of katabole:
"...
2. A second meaning in Heb 11:11 relates to the sexual function of the
male. The verse might refer to Sarah, but the context, especially
v.12, suggests that Abraham is the subject and that kai aute Sarra is
due to textual corruption"
My New International Commentary says:
"According to v11 Sarah's faith is joined with Abraham's in a
co-operative venture to produce a son. But there is no record of her
faith in the OT-only of her incredulity at the promise of the Lord
(Gen 18:12ff). In addition, the Greek expression translated `to
become a father (katabole spermatos) is regularly used of the
`sowing' of the seed, of `begetting' (Arndt and Gingrich, Greek-
English Lexicon), rather than of conceiving as in RSV. Hence it
is most likely that the Greek should be translated, `By faith he
(Abraham) received power to beget by Sarah herself'.
I believe therefore, that you overstate the case, Denis, in claiming
that the words `eis katabolen spermatos' definitely means that the
writer of Hebrews held to a "double-seed theory" and that the NIV
translators were "embarrased" and "inaccurately slipped Abraham into
the verse". I am sure the translators of the NIV were top Greek
scholars and had good reasons for their supplying of "Abraham" in the
verse.
While I do believe there may be human errors in Scripture, I am
conscious that I make human errors too and therefore I must be careful
before I claim that something in the Bible is definitely an error.
I believe we should treat the Bible writers like any other trustworthy
witness - as innocent until *proven* guilty - and exhaust every other
reasonable possibility before we conclude they made a mistake. In
this case there are such other reasonable possibilities.
God bless.
Stephen
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