On Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:13:08 -0400 (EDT) you wrote:
GS>Stephen Jones wrote:
>[big jump]
SJ>That's why it is so disappointing to see TE's being basically
>negative to Phil Johnson. If TE's cannot take the fight up to
>naturalism, then why try to stop others who try to do it? <<
GS>Come on, Stephen. We've been over this territory before. TE's are
>not basically negative to Phil Johnson's view that philosophical
>naturalism is wrong.
I did not claim they were. I said they were "being basically negative
to Phil Johnson." This is borne out by the "basically negative" TE
reviews of Phil Johnson's books, DOT and RITB. This is how Johnson
himself sees it:
"Ironically, while my critique of Darwinism and scientific naturalism
has gained a hearing in secular academic debates, it has met with
surprising resistance from theistic evolutionists in the Christian
academic world. That many Christian college and seminary professors
are ardent defenders of Darwinism may seem astonishing, but it is
true." (Phillip E. Johnson, "Shouting `Heresy' in the Temple of
Darwin", Christianity Today, October 24, 1994, p26)
GS>But you can hardly expect them to agree with PJ when he comes
>close to equating TE and atheistic positions.
The point is that Johnson in the first instance attacks *Naturalism*
and *Darwinism* as an expression of it. In the first edition there of
DOT there was only one reference to TE and it was conciliatory. It
was the TE's who attacked PJ first, in their negative book reviews of
DOT:
"My secular colleagues usually assume that a book which challenges the
central pillar of scientific naturalism must have been received with
wild enthusiasm in the Christian world. It is true that many
Christian readers are enthusiastic, but there are also many with
serious reservations. There is a very wide range of opinion among
Christians about evolution, ranging from "young-earth"
creation-scientists to liberal theologians who embrace naturalistic
evolution with enthusiasm. One group with which I have been
particularly engaged in discussion and debate consists of the
Christian professors of science and philosophy who attempt to
accommodate science and religion by embracing "theistic evolution."
Reviewers in this category include William Hasker, Nancey Murphy,
Howard Van Till, and Owen Gingerich." (Johnson P.E., "Darwin on
Trial", Second Edition, InterVarsity Press: Illinois, 1993, p166).
If Johnson criticises TE for seemingly supporting "atheistic
positions" (I am not even sure that he does) it is only in response to
this original TE attack on PJ.
GS>The truth is that TE's have
>been taking "the fight up to (philosophical) naturalism", and will
>continue to do so - in their own way - not yours.
I am not aware that "TE's have been taking "the fight up to
(philosophical) naturalism", but I rejoice if they do. I seem to
remember Loren as admitting that TE's have not done this well
at all?
But if TE's have indeed "been taking `the fight up to (philosophical)
naturalism", then why are they "being basically negative to
Phil Johnson" who is doing the same thing?
GS>I respect you and your
>efforts to serve the Lord as a PC - from a position you believe is right.
>Let us respect the TE's among us, and their efforts to serve the Lord as
>TE's - from a position they think is right.
I "respect" TE's as people, but I do not necessarily "respect" their
"position", especially where they "are being basically negative" to
great apologists like Phil Johnson when they "take the fight up to
naturalism".
I suggest that TE's seize the opportunity to join forces with PJ in
his attack on Naturalism, and stop criticising him for that attack.
If they don't do this, then I can only conclude they are too committed
to Naturalism.
God bless.
Stephen
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