From: Terry M. Gray (grayt@lamar.colostate.edu)
Date: Wed Apr 23 2003 - 14:25:05 EDT
There's an article published in JETS by John Munday, Jr. at the
Reasons to Believe site
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/creature_mortality.shtml?main
He will also have an article in the upcoming Eerdmans volume due out
this summer *Implications of an Evolving Creation* edited by Keith
Miller.
TG
>Hello friends:
>
>Can anyone point me to a good reference that specifically addresses the
>creationist theological assertion that no scientific theory or theology can
>be valid if it allows for there to be physical death before the fall?
>
>It seems that conservative christians are unwilling to allow for any ideas
>about science/creation that might result in a slippery slope affecting this
>doctrine. I myself cannot fathom how the physical creation could possibly
>not include death at all times in it existence since it has included life
>(whether or not you think that it evolved sensu Van Till's RFEP, as I do,
>or that it was created in six days with all the current species and
>components in place. And, theologically, I don't see how the absence of
>physical death before the fall is necessary to an otherwise fully
>conventional, reformed, and solid christian theology about the consequences
>for sin. Isn't the salient consequence of sin in fact spiritual separation
>from God and his eternal life for us in heaven?
>
>I'm not looking for scientific arguments against this no-death-before-fall
>(NDBF) view. Rather, I need help putting together strictly theological
>arguments and a articulating a overall theology that affirms solid
>christian theology without NDBF. As I've alluded to in previous posts,
>I've been searching for a church home here in Rockford, IL, and have been
>having difficulty finding a church that is serious and vibrant in its
>christian faith while able to tolerate (even appreciate!) diversity about
>issues of evolution and science, not to mention politics. I'm conservative
>in theology without being a biblical literalist, so I have to believe that
>there are others like me somewhere in this city of 250,000! One church I'm
>considering seems promising in certain ways, and I anticipate a lunch
>meeting with the pastor in which I will need to find out his tolerance
>level for my views. I know that he holds to NDBF, but perhaps he can
>respect and appreciate my view if I can provide him with a reasonable
>theological framework that does not require NDBF.
>
>I am familiar with the concept that the garden of eden was the miraculous
>(supernatural, interventional) exception to the ordinary ecology of the
>creation, but that in itself is a somewhat weak argument that looks like
>gymnastics on my part to get my science to fit the bible. I need to
>articulate a whole theological framework for my view.
>
>Sincerely,
>Douglas Hayworth
>
>P.S. I realize that some on the list are themselves of the NDBF camp. Of
>course, I can't stop you from taking me to task about this posting, but I'd
>much prefer to obtain the information I am asking for first; then you/we
>can discuss those points when they are presented. Thanks.
-- _________________ Terry M. Gray, Ph.D., Computer Support Scientist Chemistry Department, Colorado State University Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 grayt@lamar.colostate.edu http://www.chm.colostate.edu/~grayt/ phone: 970-491-7003 fax: 970-491-1801
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