From: Vernon Jenkins (vernon.jenkins@virgin.net)
Date: Wed Apr 23 2003 - 15:46:48 EDT
Re: fine tuningDon,
Thanks for your response. I have interspersed a few comments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Winterstein
To: Vernon Jenkins ; Howard J. Van Till ; Debbie Mann ; Asa
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: fine tuning
Vernon,
Whenever I mention doubt, skepticism or unbelief, in the back of my mind are
always my atheistic or agnostic friends and former colleagues from work.
What would it take to change their minds about God? I believe if they
studied your results, they might find them amazing or just curious, but I
can't imagine on that basis they'd suddenly conclude that God exists. I can
practically guarantee they'd come to a whole lot of other conclusions before
that one. These people are really good at explaining away anything that
looks like a miracle. To change their minds, a miracle will have to hit
their souls, not their intellects.
Presumably, your atheist and agnostic friends would claim to be rationalists
like the late Carl Sagan - following truth, no matter where it may lead. The
'acid test', of course, is whether they are prepared to allow their beliefs
to be challenged by rational argument based upon hard fact. To take just one
aspect of the matter: what the Lord has packed into the 7 Hebrew words of
Genesis 1:1 renders it a 'standing miracle' - based upon simple numerical,
geometrical and symbolic principles. Those who refuse to take the logical
next step can hardly claim their thoughts and actions are guided solely by
reason.
Also for me as a believer, God has a much bigger impact when he speaks to my
soul than when he speaks to my intellect.
The tenor of what you have written suggests that you see little use for
apologetics in the lives of Christians, and those destined to become
Christians. While I fully accept the principle that '...by grace are ye
saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:...
(Eph.2:8), that cannot automatically exclude an initial, and continuing,
appeal to the intellect. Do we not read (Acts 17:2, 18:4, 19) that the
Apostle Paul 'reasoned with them (the Jews) out of the scriptures'? And
again, in Isaiah's day you may remember the Lord challenges His people with
the words "Come now, and let us reason together..." (Is.1:18). Clearly,
there is powerful precedent for my attempt to 'reason from the scriptures'!
I once told a college roommate to turn out the lights and watch. It was
winter, and the humidity was really low. I pulled off my cotton T-shirt at
high speed, and the sparks from static electricity lit up the shirt and the
whole room. My roommate's comment: "Now I know what I'm going to show my
bride on my wedding night." I didn't say anything, but I could imagine what
this hypothetical bride would say (assuming she was not a nerd): "Honey, if
you think this is what I want on my wedding night, we need to have a long
talk."
I'm not sure what to make of this illustration. It appears to be about
_blunted expectations_. In the present context that suggests that - because
unexpected - you regard as unwelcome the appearance of further scriptural
information that seems primarily intended to inculcate, or reinforce, the
Christian's high view of God.. But how can we be sensitive to the
possibility of His acting in our day if minds are unbelieving and closed?
So I now say to God, "Dear, if you think your numerical tricks are going to
impress me, we need to have a long talk."
You speak of God's 'numerical tricks'. Are we to understand, then, that you
think lightly of the Book of Revelation? - and of verses 13:18, 15:2 and
22:19, in particular?
Your results pose more questions for me than answers, and I'm sure they
would for my unbelieving friends as well.
As a Christian and scientist, I believe you are being somewhat coy in
believing no answers are delivered by these phenomena.
Regards,
Vernon
Don,
You wrote (13 Apr), "If we can't come up with a convincing witness to the
activity of God in the world, the best alternative would be a powerful
witness to the work of God in our lives. But this would all be spiritual
and of necessity personal. Who would believe?"
But I believe we already have 'a convincing witness to the activity of God
in the world', viz the numero-geometrical and other numerical phenomena
attending the 7 Hebrew words of the Bible's first verse, the Greek form of
the Creator's name and Rev.13:18. The evidences may be found on my website.
I'm sure you would agree that it is hardly right that such empirical data
should be consistently ignored by this branch of the scientific community.
Vernon
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