Re: The Future for ID

From: Richard Wein (rwein@lineone.net)
Date: Wed Oct 04 2000 - 04:58:27 EDT

  • Next message: Richard Wein: "Re: muliplte persona alert!"

    >From: Nucacids@aol.com <Nucacids@aol.com>

    >What Becomes of ID?
    >
    >It is commonly thought that ID is nothing more that some
    >form of reactionary religious response to the truth of the
    >neo-Darwinian worldview. Neo-Darwinism, after all, represents
    >the crown jewel of the non-teleological, reductionist approach
    >to life. Some religious people, it is said, make their peace
    >with neo-Darwinism and sequester their God to the
    >empirically undetectable realm. But it is also said that
    >there are the religious die-hards, who think their God needs
    >a job or will otherwise become superfluous. Thus, they
    >look for gaps in Nature and seek to find a job for their
    >God among those gaps.
    >
    >And such, I think, is the most common perception
    >about basic dynamic behind the existence of ID.
    >Put simply, it's the last gasp of a dying form of
    >theistic interventionism. A polished, but still
    >inherently flawed, form of creationism.
    >
    >Now, I suspect this perception is accurate for
    >some, maybe many or even most. As I participate in some
    >debates about this issue, and more importantly, as I lurk
    >and watch many others, I do indeed think much of the noise
    >is simply about theists and atheists using a different language
    >to carry on the alt.atheism type debates that most cyber-surfers
    >have probably seen at one time or another. And even if you don't
    >quite fit into the context, if you participate, it's easy to get
    >caught in their cross-fire.
    >
    >If I am correct, then what does the future hold for ID? Let's
    >say that ID has played its strongest cards - Dembski's EF/CSI
    >and Behe's IC. Both cards are played such that they are supposed
    >to compel any rational person into accepting ID. But if we survey
    >the response of their skeptics, it would clearly appear that they
    >have thus far failed. An army of skeptics, who are certainly
    >not irrational, have either rejected these cards or found them
    >seriously inadequate.
    >
    >Now, I suppose the arguments can be strengthened in the future,
    >and periodically various scholars or scientists may join the ID
    >"movement," but if that was their best shot, what becomes of ID?
    >Will ID always remain marginalized? Will ID find its home only
    >among those with fundamentalist-like religious leanings? After all,
    >as those gaps keeping getting smaller and smaller, it is going to be
    >harder and harder to find a job for God, right?
    >
    >I think it is safe to assume the vast majority of ID critics would
    >respond "yes" to these questions. I think most ID critics think
    >that in the future, ID will be viewed by historians as nothing more
    >than a desperate last attempt to resurrect some form of theistic world
    >view that finally gives way to a non-teleological viewpoint that
    >will forever reign.

    Hello Mike. With the exception of your statement about "alt.atheism type
    debates" (which cannot be true, as many of the strongest critics of ID are
    theists), I think you've summed up the attitude of ID critics well. (Of
    course, I recognize that there are some ID proponents, like DNAUnion, who
    are not religious. But they're in a small minority. The CRSC, to which all
    the major proponents of ID belong, has a declared theistic agenda.)

    >I think, however, there is a very good chance the future will
    >be very different. That is, even if the current ID arguments are not made
    >any more rigorous than they are today, I think some form of teleological
    >viewpoint, probably including something like current ID, will gain
    >a strong foothold in the future and spread much farther than any current
    >ID critic can imagine. And not just among the uneducated. Am I really
    >that naïve? Am I really such a true-believer? Is it really that hard for
    >me to wake up and smell that coffee?

    I think I can say quite safely that ID will not become a major position
    among the scientific community here in Europe in any imaginable future. As
    far as the USA is concerned, other posters are in a much better position to
    judge than I am. But I think that ID's only hope is to capture the
    non-scientific community first, and then create a new scientific community,
    through the replacement of today's scientists with new ones. I just cannot
    see how the average scientist of today could be persuaded by ID's phoney
    arguments.

    >Well, I hope I am not that naïve, I'm not really a "true-believer"
    >on this issue, but I do confess to not drinking coffee. Nevertheless, I
    >can "see" a very different future than the ID critic and it doesn't even
    >depend on some sensational ID break-through.
    >
    >It's just in the cards.
    >
    >Shall I explain?

    I would be very interested in reading your scenario. I've always enjoyed
    science fiction. ;-)

    Richard Wein (Tich)

    PS Well done for putting that diaeresis on the word naive. I bet that took
    some work!



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Oct 04 2000 - 05:03:00 EDT