Re: muliplte persona alert!

From: DNAunion@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 04 2000 - 03:29:57 EDT

  • Next message: Richard Wein: "Re: Reply to CCogan: Waste and computer evolution"

    >Huxter: Be wary of imposters and posters using mulitple names to appear
    >to have support - nucacids and >DNAunion appear to be the same person, and it
    >also appears that 'Mike B. Gene' may be making a >comeback under a different
    >name.
    > >
    > >The ARN discussion board was shut down in part due to the fact that ID
    >advocates were posting under >multiple identities which, big surprise, heaped
    >accolades on each other (which were in fact themseves!).

    > >> Susan: what!? creationists being dishonest?!

    > >>DNAunion: What? Atheistic Nazi's not being able to distinguish between ID
    >and Creationism!

    > >>>FMAJ: That is totally uncalled for and imho very insulting.

    >DNAunion: Yes, I agree that Huxter's implications and Susan's comments were
    >totally uncalled for and very insulting. As has been shown, Huxter's claims
    >about me are totally false.

    >Susan did not need to here the evidence - she simply assumed that I and the
    >others are guilty.

    >Chris: No, she didn't. She merely made a quip, …

    ****************

    DNAunion: No, she made a direct reply to a post dealing with the "ARN
    people" which mentions me specifically. The original post did not call the
    ARN people or me creationists - Susan made that unsound leap in logic all
    herself, and without any knowledge of me or Mike. And had Susan wanted to
    merely make a comment about creationists in general she should have either
    created a new thread, or saved her comments for another post.

    Now Chris, if her comments were not directed at me, then what makes you think
    that my comments were directed at her? Another instance of being blind to
    the "insider's" crimes and only seeing those of the "outsiders"?

    ****************

    >Chris: based on the historical and fairly blatant tendency of many
    creationists to

    1. Quote out of context.
    2. Quote things that people did not say.
    3. Modify quotes to change their meaning.
    4. Lie about facts that they could check for themselves (such as physics,
    computer science, information theory, chemistry, genetics, biology, etc.)
    5. Lie about what evolutionists claim.
    6. Grossly and willfully misrepresent (i.e., lie about) evolutionary theory
    in order to have a version stupid enough to refute easily -- and then claim
    (dishonestly) to have refuted naturalistic evolutionary theory, even though
    the theory they refuted is not one that any serious evolutionist holds.
    7. Etc.

    ****************

    DNAunion: Yes, those are exactly the attributes she wanted to thrust upon me
    and others at ARN without having a shred evidence, and without having to
    supply a single shred of evidence. Just the mere implication that we (or I)
    are creationists is enough to establish all the above shortcomings of the
    opponent's position effortlessly - that is why it is wrong, and generally an
    underhanded tactic, to call someone a creationist when you have no idea what
    that person or persons actually believes.

    >Chris: I will agree with Susan's implication that their actual evidence is
    pretty pathetic. If they actually *did* have strong and relevant arguments,
    they would not need to bother with such dishonesty.

    ****************

    DNAunion: Actually, from the many discussion I have had, I have found that
    theistic evolutionists are just as bad - distorting facts and name calling
    and making unfounded accusations and ignoring valid scientific evidence.

    However, calling someone a theistic evolutionist does not automatically mark
    them as "defective scientist" and so cannot be used as a counter to the
    charge of being a creationist - it is like someone giving you a bloody nose
    and in return, you flick their arm with your index finger. To make the
    counter point clear, the reaction must be at least equal to the original
    action.
     
    ****************

    >DNAunion: And on top of her assumption based on not a single shread of
    evidence,

    > Chris: She didn't offer any, that's true, but she has no interest in you
    to speak of; she was merely using Huxter's post to make a point.

    ****************

    DNAunion: Yes, she did have an interest in me and others at ARN - that was
    what she was directly replying to. As I stated above, if she was making a
    general statement about creationists and it had no bearing on either me or
    others at ARN, then she should have started a new thread or held her comments
    for another post. As it stands, she was addressing me and the other ARN
    people.

    ****************

    >Chris: However, if she chose to, she could offer *reams* of evidence, from
    this list alone, from the sites of creationists, from the books written by
    creationists, and so on. There is no dearth of evidence in this area.

    ****************

    DNAunion: You have switched topics. You have gone from her original
    statements - that I and the other people at ARN are creationists, which is
    the claim that needed supporting evidence - to your interpretation of her
    statements as a comment on creationism in general, for which there is a lot
    of evidence.

    ****************

    >DNAunion: Susan then adds injury to insult by calling me a Creationist and
    dishonest (not to mention her later implication that my/our arguments are
    based on ignorance). I am not a Creationist and do not appreciated being
    called one as an insult - as Susan obviously intended. Furthermore, I am not
    dishonest, and I do not appreciate having such things said about me. Yes,
    FMAJ, I agree with you - their unprovoked and unfounded comments were
    insulting and uncalled for. Thanks for seeing the truth and not taking the
    side of your friends over that of truth (sarcasm intended)

    I notice that no one said a word to Susan for her unprovoked insults of me
    and the others?

    >Chris: This is probably because everyone except you recognized (instantly!)
    that her remark was not aimed at you personally.

    ****************

    DNAunion: It was stated in direct response to a post that (1) dealt solely
    with me and others at ARN and (2) did not mention creationists at all. So
    tell me Chris, how did you immediately recognize that it was not aimed at me
    or the others at ARN and was about creationists?

    ****************

    >DNAunion: But when I - the outsider - returned the favor all hell broke
    loose.

    ****************

    >Chris: Could this be because, despite the obvious jocularity of Susan's
    remark, *your* remarks were anything *but* jocular?

    ****************

    DNAunion: More double standards. When an "insider" makes an uninformed,
    unfounded, and incorrect insult of her opponents, then it is just in jest.
    But when the "outsider" responds in like manner, then he is being quarrelsome
    or abrasive. Is that it?

    ****************

    >DNAunion: You people blindly follow your self-imposed double standards.
    Too bad you can't just face your opponents honestly - that you have to resort
    to underhanded tactics.

    >Chris: Face it: You got upset over a casual quip that was not even aimed at
    you, but merely happened to be in a post that mentioned you (through no fault
    of hers),

    ****************

    DNAunion: No, you face it. The "casual quip" was meant as an insult. It
    was aimed at me and others at ARN. If her insults were not aimed at me and
    that others at ARN, then it is her fault for posting them in direct reply to
    a post that dealt solely with me and others at ARN.

    ****************

    >Chris: .. and then you responded in a way that was *not* casual and that
    *was* personal.

    ****************

    DNAunion: No more so that Susan.

    ****************

    >Chris: If you want to complain, you should be complaining to Huxter,
    because *he* was the one who possibly incorrectly suggested that you might be
    posing as two people.

    ****************

    DNAunion: Already taken care of.



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