Re: Is Intelligent Design Creationism?

From: Nucacids@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 03 2000 - 20:31:30 EDT

  • Next message: Mark Isaak: "Re: CSI, GAs, etc."

    Hi Lisa,

    You wrote:

    "If a person, like Mike Gene, wants to hold to this definition, they'll have
    to keep in mind that it is wholly inadequate and completely misleading. It
    does not allow for the wide varieties of creationism in existence today,
    such as Islamic creationism, Native American Creationism, or for that
    matter, Raelian creationism. It's simply a poor and inaccurate definition.

    Some intelligent design advocates object to being called a 'creationist'
    because people might take the word to mean Biblical literalist. Behe has
    made this argument in the past, and certainly he does not deserve to be
    called a Biblical literalist."

    Yes, the dictionary definition captures how people commonly use and
    interpret the word. Now, unlike you, I do have experience with being
    labeled as such. And in every case, the word was clearly being used,
    by the one who labeled, as it is in the dictionary. What's more, it usually
    carries with it all sorts of negative connotations. It's a cheap, and
    thus common, debate trick that taps into the preconceptions of others
    instead of dealing with the points/arguments actually being raised.

    Ironically, when people label me as such, it usually works to my
    rhetorical advantage. This is because the labeler is typically influenced
    by the power of the label and thus commonly gets confused and
    makes faulty claims and attributions about me. It makes it very
    easy for me to simply point out how the labeler is tripping all
    over him/herself. If you want to argue with me such that you are
    a fish in a barrel, by all means, rely on your labels.

    Nevertheless, I have some questions for you.

    1. Why do you have a need to label me in the first place?
    Of all the arguments I posted to ARN (and here), you seem
    obsessed only about this. Why?

    2. In what specific way does the 'creationist' label better
    help you understand my position? {this is all the more
    important because experience has taught me that this
    label actually makes it harder for others to understand
    my position}.

    3. You like Johnson's definition. Fine. So you also think Howard
    Van Till is a creationist?

    4. Francis Crick is well known for having proposed
    directed panspermia. Is he also a creationist?

    5. If the answer to 3 and 4 is No, why?
    If the answer to 3 and 4 is Yes, consider the following
    scenario:

    Henry Morris, from the ICR, is being interviewed by CNN.
    He is asked if there are any other scholars outside the ICR
    who are creationists. He says, "Why yes, Howard Van Till and
    Francis Crick come to mind."

    Now, would anyone accuse Morris of being misleading??

    DN...er, Mike



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