Re: Numerical Significance

From: Vernon Jenkins (vernon.jenkins@virgin.net)
Date: Mon Oct 02 2000 - 17:48:19 EDT

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    Hi Chris,

    VJ > My research techniques - applied to the Hebrew text of the Old
    Testament and the Greek text of the New - have followed an identical
    path (to that of SETI);
     
    Chris > No, they haven't. There is no "signal" processing. You are doing
    what, if it were done to the signals from space, would find "intelligent
    life" everywhere. You are simply finding the kinds of coincidences that
    occur all the time but which usually go unnoticed. Martin Gardner used
    once in while write a column in Scientific American magazine in which he
    would do this sort of thing. It's a meaningless parlor game because it
    does not distinguish meaningful signal from the zillions of coincidences
    that occur in almost any large text. I've already, in a post about a
    year ago, demonstrated how easy this sort of thing is to do (and I'm not
    even a mathematician, and I only spent about half-an-hour on it).
     
    By jiggering the filtering methods, you can find damn near anything you
    want in damn near anything. It's a kind of statistical Rorschach test,
    in which the searcher is able to "see" whatever he wants to see. You
    could even easily find *denials* of the Bible within the Bible by the
    same general method (if you don't believe me, find some atheist whose
    willing to put in some time on it). It really does not matter much
    whether the text you analyze in this way *is* even text in the usual
    sense. You could build a file of letters, characters, punctuation marks,
    and the like, all selected randomly, and then you could find all sorts
    of wonderful "messages" in it.
     
    VJ's response: It is disappointing that you appear unable to grasp the
    fact that certain numbers have particular properties that lend
    themselves to 'intelligence-revealing' projects of the kind we are
    discussing. I have already drawn attention to a class of numbers that
    display symmetrical forms when represented, typically, as collections of
    uniform circular counters. A study of these 'figurate' numbers reveals
    37 to be particularly remarkable in that it may be represented in three
    distinct ways - these involving a total of 16 axes of symmetry. In this
    respect, it is unique among the numbers. Thus, to find that Gn.1:1 is
    saturated with multiples of 37 is hardly an insignificant starting
    point!

    With respect to your comment re 'signal processing', I have always
    understood this to include the mental activities involved in decoding
    the impulses received via the senses; these would surely include
    reading, and an assessment of the information contained in the Bible's
    opening words!

    VJ > clearly, they (my methods) have the same validty as those of SETI,
    wouldn't you agree?

    Chris > No; because searching for a meaningful signal in a radio signal
    is based on the *distinction* between "noise" and meaningful signals.
    But we already *know* that the Bible is meaningful signal.
     
    VJ's response: I agree that "we already know the Bible is meaningful
    signal". However, in my view, it is one that suffers from improper
    processing. Clearly, the second signal is intended to put that right!

    VJ > May I suggest you look at 'The Creation Geometries' on my first
    website. Clearly, to demonstrate that such structures do not exist in
    the first sentence of other major writings would be the work of a
    lifetime - and more! In my view, it is sufficient that they are found to
    occur in the opening words of Bible - and in circumstances that demand a
    supernatural explanation.
     
    Chris > Sorry, no. The *exact* structures you have found, or claim to
    have found, might not exist in some other books, but then you could find
    *another* set of geometric structures, or even the same structures but
    based on different aspects of the text.
     
    Further, if you are unwilling to put your method to such a test, why
    should anyone take it seriously at all? Further still, there are dozens,
    if not hundreds or thousands of such claims about a vast variety of
    texts, many of them *conflicting* with yours. Which ones are to be taken
    as true when they are all "justified" by the same methodology?

    VJ's response: The numeric structures one might find in the opening
    words of other books will depend upon the choice of method for
    converting words to numbers. Comparatively few peoples beside the Greeks
    and Jews have used all the letters of their alphabets as numerals; it
    therefore follows that the attempted extraction of numbers from other
    texts must depend on the whim of the investigator - hardly a
    confidence-building exercise!

    billwald > Does your theory have predictive value that can be tested?

    VJ > Not in the generally accepted sense.

    Chris > Nor in any other sense.

    VJ's response: In respect of predictive value, if my theory is correct -
    and I have no reason to doubt that it is - then there are certain
    implications which are clearly set out in the biblical text (eg
    Mt.25:32).

    Finally, Chris, concerning your lengthy posting of Sat, 23 Sep: surely,
    you too are numbered among the 'faithful' in respect, for example, of
    your belief that, (1) the speed of light is constant - and always has
    been what we find it to be today? and, (2) the assumptions upon which
    current radiometric dating methods are based are on a par with
    self-evident truths?

    Regards,

    Vernon

    Vernon Jenkins MSc
    [musician, mining engineer, and formerly Senior Lecturer in Maths and
    Computing, the Polytechnic of Wales (now the University of Glamorgan)]

    http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/index.htm
    http://www.compulink.co.uk/~indexer/miracla1.htm



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