Intelligence by Proxy - evolutionary algorithms

From: DNAunion@aol.com
Date: Sun Oct 01 2000 - 22:40:29 EDT

  • Next message: FMAJ1019@aol.com: "Re: Intelligence by Proxy - evolutionary algorithms"

    >Ccogan: A fully intelligent designer does not need *ever* to produce
    useless variations, because it is intelligent and knowledgeable enough to
    know beforehand what will work. In intelligent design, there is no massive
    amount of variation *because* it's intelligent.

    DNAunion: Is that why personal computers have not changed at all over the
    last 20 years???? Is that why cars have not changed at all over the last
    century??? What about airplanes, and televisions, and magnetic recording
    devices and media, etc: surely they are exactly the same today as when they
    were first introduced, right??? Of course not - they were all intelligently
    designed but not one of their designs was "gotten right the first time".
    Your argument here seems to be valid only against those that claim the
    designer(s) was/were perfect and omniscient.

    >Ccogan: The evolutionary algorithm is *hugely* wasteful in design terms,
    precisely because it doesn't know what it's doing. And it doesn't know
    because it's not intelligent.

    DNAunion: Waste itself is not a sign of lack of intelligence. Industries
    intentionally create huge amounts of waste everyday - are they not controlled
    by intelligent beings?

    >Ccogan: If we grant that the evolutionary algorithm is intelligence by
    proxy,ID theorists would be right in this one case at the cost of their
    entire real position. This is because, if we grant that such a mindless
    process as the evolutionary algorithm is intelligent, then blind, mindless
    *Nature* is "intelligent" in the same sense…

    DNAunion: Could you provide the example on which you base your claims? What
    exactly evolved in the virtual world by the evolutionary algorithm and where
    can one gain access to the guts of this algorithm?
     
    >Ccogan: … and thus does not need God or any other alleged non-natural
    designer to direct it to produce functionally complex living things.

    DNAunion: "Not needing something" is not the same as "something did not
    happen". For example, let us hypothesize that 50 years from now, both
    intelligence and nature are shown to be capable of producing life from
    non-life. At that hypothetical time, if IDists and Creationists stated
    "nature is not NEEDED to produce life", would you accept that life was
    designed? I seriously doubt it. So why would you expect IDists and
    Creationists to accept now that life evolved purely naturally because
    intelligence is not "needed"? (And furthermore, I believe you still have not
    shown your basic premise to be true).



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