Re: More on CSI

From: Richard Wein (rwein@lineone.net)
Date: Thu Sep 28 2000 - 12:16:38 EDT

  • Next message: Paul Nelson: "Re: Examples of natural selection generating CSI"

    From: FMAJ1019@aol.com <FMAJ1019@aol.com>

    >In a message dated 9/16/2000 8:28:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    >ccogan@telepath.com writes:
    >
    >
    ><< >If Dembski's analytical techniques cannot resolve the issue of
    >>possible cheating in the "Algorithm Room", how does he hope to
    >>resolve the issue of whether certain features of biology are
    >>necessarily the work of an intelligent agent or agents? If
    >>Dembski has no solution to this dilemma, the Design Inference
    >>is dead."
    >
    >
    >Chris
    >It was stillborn anyway.
    >
    > >>
    >
    >I disagree. It took the analysis of people such as Wesley to show the
    >problems with the design inference. Nor does it mean that the design
    >inference is totally useless. As Wesley seems to argue there are cases
    where
    >it could, with some adjustments, be used in such areas as archeology or
    >criminology.
    >Whether it has a future in biology however seems doubtful.
    >
    >Wesley also showed quite convincingly that the design inference can not
    >exclude natural forces as the "intelligent designer" of a structure that
    has
    >been infered to have been "designed".
    >People seem confused by ID in that they believe that it has infered
    >intelligence but in fact all it has done is excluded chance and regularity
    >(Dembski) or "known evolutionary mechanism(s)" (Behe).

    I agree with Chris. The Design Inference is useless. It is trivial
    probability theory, dressed up with a lot of flim-flam and equivocation.
    (The parts of TDI that attempt to define specification precisely are
    non-trivial, but fatally flawed.)

    Because of the equivocation, no-one knows for sure exactly what the method
    of the Design Inference is. Wesley and I have come to two different
    conclusions about it. But either way the Design Inference is useless.

    Wesley's interpretation is that the relevant probability/CSI is calculated
    on the basis of "pure chance", i.e. that all possible combinations of
    components are equally likely. But this is just the old creationist/Hoyle
    canard of assuming that a biological system is a random assembly of
    components, ignoring the effect of natural selection.

    My interpretation (which I claim is based on a literal reading of Dembski)
    is that the relevant probability/CSI must be calculated for each relevant
    chance hypothesis. For a biological system, this includes the hypothesis of
    evolution by random variation and natural selection. Such a calculation
    appears impossible, and anyway has not been performed yet. I have
    personally asked Dembski to cite such a calculation, and he has failed to do
    so. Therefore, it has not been demonstrated that CSI actually exists in
    nature. Even if CSI were detected, that would only rule out the specific
    chance hypotheses actually tested, and would not necessarily mean that an
    inference of ID was justified.

    Richard Wein (Tich)



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