Re: What Would You Do to make evolution work?? (*Again*)

From: Howard J. Van Till (hvantill@novagate.com)
Date: Wed Sep 27 2000 - 08:53:51 EDT

  • Next message: Howard J. Van Till: "Why Does the Universe Work?"

    Chris has asked (especially of ID supporters):

    >> > Just what *are* the conditions that must be met for naturalistic
    >> > evolution to proceed on its own to develop the kinds of complexity
    >> > we see in life today?

    To which I commented:

    >>Good question. But before an answer could be offered, I suggest you clarify
    >>what the term "naturalistic" means in this context. In ID literature there
    >>are two very different meanings for the term, but the distinction is almost
    >>never made.
    >>
    >>A *broad* (and explicit in its denial of a Creator) meaning could be built
    >>on the platform of Naturalism as a comprehensive worldview that included the
    >>premise, "Nature is all there is, and it needs no Creator to give it being."
    >>In that context, "naturalistic evolution" would mean evolution within a
    >>self-existent universe that needs no Creator as the source of its being.
    >>Specifically it needs no extra-natural source for the requisite formational
    >>capabilities that would make possible a process as remarkable as evolution.
    >>
    >>A *narrow* (and inconclusive regarding the need for a Creator) meaning would
    >>be simply "without need for occasional episodes of form-imposing divine
    >>intervention." This meaning would include the idea that the universe is
    >>equipped with all of the requisite formational capabilities to make
    >>evolution possible, but would make no explicit claim or denial regarding the
    >>source of those capabilities.
    >>
    >>Am I correct in presuming that you mean the latter?
    >
    > Chris
    > Yes, although, unless some very odd attributes must be included, I would
    > expect the answers to be compatible with full-fledged naturalism as well,
    > in that we could, possibly, rationally conceive of a purely naturally
    > occurring universe that would occasionally have planets with these attributes.

    Yes, the answer to your original question could be consistent with both
    naturalistic (narrow meaning) and Naturalistic (broad meaning) evolution.
    The problem is, however, that Naturalistic (broad meaning) carries with it a
    large load of metaphysical/religious propositions that are irrelevant to the
    scientific issue and specifically exclude the possibility that a world
    capable of evolving could have been brought into being by a Creator. If you
    use the broad meaning of Naturalistic in your original question, then you
    have rigged the question in such a way that no theist could answer it with
    integrity. I presume that you did not intend to do that.

    The natural sciences can proceed to explore what processes and events may
    have contributed to the evolutionary development of life without explicitly
    dealing with the question of the ultimate Source of the very formational
    capabilities that make evolution possible. In a separate posting I will
    provide a copy of a brief essay, "Why Does the Universe Work?" that gets at
    this point more carefully.

    Howard Van Till



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