Reflectoties
This is late too. To stop wasting everyone's time with my apologies
for being late, please accept my standing apology in future when my
posts are late. Thanks.
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:22:06 +0100, Richard Wein wrote:
[...]
>SJ>[SETI is basically a search
>>for intelligent design, and the comment that "it's highly scientific"
>>applies equally to ID too!]
RW>My thanks to Stephen for confirming that mainstream scientists do not rule
>out intelligent design on philosophical grounds.
My thanks to Richard for confirming that mainstream scientists do rule out
*some* intelligent design on philosophical grounds!
RW>There's nothing unscientific about searching for ID.
Good. Maybe Richard could have a debate with his colleagues on the
evolution side who argue that there *is* something "unscientific about
searching for ID"?
RW>What's unscientific is
>claiming to have found ID based on bogus arguments.
If Richard really believes that: 1) "There's nothing unscientific about
searching for ID"; and 2) "What's unscientific is claiming to have found ID
based on bogus arguments"; then Richard would (if he is sincere) have to
believe that it is *scientific* to claim "to have found ID based on" *non*-
"bogus arguments"?
If that is the case, perhaps Richard would state in advance what examples
of *non*-"bogus arguments" he would accept as a scientific case of ID.
RW>I'm sure many SETI
>researchers would love to demonstrate the existence of extraterrestrial ID,
>but, being scientists, they patiently go about the task of searching for
>evidence,
Good!
RW>rather than running a propaganda camapign claiming to have found
>evidence when there is none.
IDers *have* provided "evidence" but Richard's atheistic metaphysical
framework converts it into "a propaganda camapign".
It would be good (for Richard) if Richard frankly admitted that like all of
us, his metaphysics controls his perception of reality:
"As David Bohm has written:
`It seems clear that everybody has got some kind of metaphysics,
even if he thinks he hasn't got any. Indeed, the practical "hard-
headed" individual who "only goes by what he sees" generally has a
very dangerous kind of metaphysics, i.e., the kind of which he is
unaware.... Such metaphysics is dangerous because, in it,
assumptions and inferences are being mistaken for directly observed
facts, with the result that they are effectively riveted in an almost
unchangeable way into the structure of thought.' (Bohm D., "Some
Remarks on the Notion of Order", in Waddington C.H., ed.,
"Towards a Theoretical Biolog, 2, 1969, p41)
Bohm then adds some practical advice:
`One of the best ways of a person becoming aware of his own tacit
metaphysical assumptions is to be confronted by several other
kinds. His first reaction is often of violent disturbance, as views that
are very dear are questioned or thrown to the ground. Nevertheless,
if he will "stay with it," rather than escape into anger and unjustified
rejection of contrary ideas, he will discover that this disturbance is
very beneficial. For now he becomes aware of the assumptive
character of a great many previously unquestioned features of his
own thinking.' (Bohm D., 1969, p42)
(Thaxton C.B., Bradley W.L. & Olsen R.L., "The Mystery of Life's
Origin, 1992, Second Printing, pp.207-208)
RW>BTW, I'll be on holiday in Greece for the next two weeks [ :-) ], so you
>won't be hearing from me for a while.
Lucky Richard! I think I could just manage to forego 2 weeks of the
Reflector for a crusie of the Greek Isles! :-)
Steve
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"His faith was so strong that it did not wait on scientific proof. Spencer
became an ardent evolutionist at a time when a cautious scientist would
have been justified at least in suspending judgement. ... for him the belief in
natural causation was primary, the theory of evolution derivative." (Burrow
J.W., "Evolution and Society: A Study in Victorian Social Theory," [1966],
Cambridge University Press: London, 1968, reprint, p.205)
Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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