In a message dated 9/20/2000 10:42:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Bertvan@aol.com writes:
<< ID opponents keeps insisting, "But we don't need design. A naturalistic >>
Actually ID opponents keep insisting: Please show us a reliable indicator of
design that can exclude natural selection as the designing agent.
<< explanation *could* exist." True, but would it be science? Science fiction
writers have been dreaming up similar stories for a century now. In fact,
the twentieth century might come to be known as the "science fiction
century". Darwinism, the idea that nature is the result of chance events
molded by natural selection, included some good stories. Such as the one
about how a wolf-like creature turned into a whale in a mere 10 million years.
>>
You should really check out the 'story' and tell us what parts you do not
like. James Acker has done an excellent job reviewing a book on this issue:
The Emergence of Whales: Evolutionary Patterns in the Origins of the
Cetacea" (Advances in Vertebrate Paleontology) edited by J.G.M. Thewissen. P
lenum Press, ISBN 0306458535.
Final thoughts
http://x64.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=651920148
Chapter 1
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=598820879
Chapter 2
http://x73.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=603930156
Chapter 3
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=607622168
Chapter 4
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=610256319
Chapter 5
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=615027307
Chapter 6
http://x73.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=622189367
Chapter 7
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=625089976
Chapter 8
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=626834703
Chapter 9
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=630400907
Chapter 10
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=632802532
Chapter 11
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=635494245
Chapter 12
http://x73.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=638115493
Chapter 13
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=640997978
Chapter 14
http://x73.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=645560607
Chapter 15
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=649188575
Chapter 16
http://x69.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=650605356
<<
Some of the changes would have included:
(1) Complete loss of body hair
(2) Transformation of a protruding nose into a blowhole
(3) Migration of the blowhole to the top of the head
(4) Loss of toes/claws/hooves
(5) Forelimbs transforming gradually from wolf-like legs into pectoral fins
(6) Massive increase in body size
(7) Transformation of a wolf-like tail into a powerful fluke that propels a
whale through (and out of) the water by vertical undulations
(8) Development of echolocation
(9) Ability of young to nurse under water
(10) Increase in brain size
(11) Near complete loss of hind limbs
(12) etc‰¥Ï (for example, possible modifications to the eye to allow for vision
during continuous exposure to water, baleen for filter feeding - if present
in the first whales, ‰¥Ï)
http://www.arn.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000320.html
(See post by DNAunion 9-19-2000)
All of these changes *might* be explained by some implausible "chance events
plus natural selection" scenario. However, any story of how it might have
>>
Nothing implausible about these chance events.
h<< appened is pure science fiction. When scientists return to actually doing
>>
You seem to forget that the story is supported by evidence.
s<< cience, they will seek out the details of biology, micro biology, bio
chemistry etc., which can be verified, and leave everyone to their own
speculations about how it might have happened. I would not try to discourage
>>
Read the book I'd suggest and tell us what's wrong with it.
t<< hose who feel it can all be explained by chance events plus natural
selection. The details of how they do science will remain exactly the same
as scientists who suspect something deeper, such as design. However,
scientists who suspect design probably won't dismiss anything in nature as
"junk".
>>
They'll dismiss it as "design". So far design has not been shown to be
superior to the "I don't know" argument.
It unlikely will be.
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