Reflectorites
Subject: Re: ID vs.?
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:09:00 -0700, billwald@juno.com wrote:
[...]
>>>CH>But, that is my belief based upon faith with
>>>no scientific data to support it.
>>SJ>It is a tautology to speak of a "belief based upon faith".
>>If Cliff has a "belief" it must be based on *evidence*.
BW>There are two kind of "knowing," physical and metaphysical. Physical
>knowing is based on physical evidence and doesn't require faith.
>Metaphysical knowing is based of faith and/or belief, the words being
>approx equivalent.
This is just playing with words. Faith and belief are synonyms:
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http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=faith
[...]
Main Entry: 1 faith ... synonym see BELIEF
[...]
(c) 2000 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
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http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=belief
Main Entry: belief ... synonyms ... FAITH,
[...]
(c) 2000 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
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In the New Testament they are both English renderings of the same Greek
word-stem pistis, pisteuo. For example in Romans 3:22 they appear
together as synonyms:
"This righteousness from God comes through faith [Gk pistis] in
Jesus Christ to all who believe [Gk pisteuo]. There is no
difference,"
BW>The NT Bible says the same thing. Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the
>substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen," KJB. In
>other words, a metaphysical form of knowing. "Things not seen" must mean
>"not detectable through physical means" and NOT "things sub-microscopic
>and/or super-telescopic."
The question we are discussing is not whether or not faith is "a
metaphysical form of knowing" but whether it is based on "evidence". The
above verse says it is based on "evidence".
BW>Jesus, himself, implied, "Sometimes stuff happens," billwald
>transliteration, see Luke 13:4.
Leaving aside whether Luke 13:4 bears the interpretation that Bill puts on
it (I don't believe it does), I cannot see what the question of whether or not
"Sometimes stuff happens" has to do with the question of whether a belief
must be based on evidence.
Steve
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"Evolution at the level of populations and species might, in some cases,
appear as nearly continuous change accompanied by divergence to occupy
much of the available morphospace. However, this is certainly not true for
long-term, large-scale evolution, such as that of the metazoan phyla, which
include most of the taxa that formed the basis for the evolutionary
synthesis. The most striking features of large-scale evolution are the
extremely rapid divergence of lineages near the time of their origin,
followed by long periods in which basic body plans and ways of life are
retained. What is missing are the many intermediate forms hypothesized by
Darwin, and the continual divergence of major lineages into the
morphospace between distinct adaptive types." (Carroll R.L., "Towards a
new evolutionary synthesis," Trends in Ecology & Evolution, 2000, Vol.
15, pp.27-32)Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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