Re: Wexler - Johnson comparisons

Chris Cogan (ccogan@sfo.com)
Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:14:55 -0700

> MikeBGene wrote:
> >Johnson's passion for his ID views might
> >catalyze a discovery if he hooks up with someone with the necessary
> >technical skills. Put simply, Johnson might inspire some young ID
> >scientist who might make a discovery as the result is being so
> >inspired. His contribution would be indirect, but no less real.
> >
> >Of course, this parallel all hinges on an actual discovery being made.
>
> I sincerely doubt Johnson cares about doing something like you describe
> above. A discovery of supernatural intervention (which is what ID is)
would
> be really interesting indeed! I'd be interested in a young scientist (or
an
> old one) constructing a test that would filter supernatural (ID) events
> from those caused by natural forces. Even if the test never discovered
> anything, the actual existence of such a test would certainly give some
> underpinnings to Johnson's rhetoric which currently rests on wishful
> thinking.

Chris
Obviously, there's a *major* risk involved in ID folks putting their "money"
where their mouth is, except for some of the less dogmatic ones.

But, if it is argued that ID intervention occurred at the time life
originated, and has not been occurring on an ongoing basis since, such a
test would have to be pretty startling indeed, like a true test to determine
that it is *physically* impossible to build DNA by any means other than
natural reproduction. Such a test is not likely to be found because there
are just too frigging many ways to try to mash the components together, and,
most importantly, we *DO* create DNA from scratch.

So, they need something similarly startling which has not already been
invalidated. If ID is a truly scientific theory, as opposed to mere
imposition of theology on science, then there should be serious -- and
possible -- proposals of such tests being offered by the dozens every day on
this list (perhaps I exaggerate a *little*, but you get my point).

But, oddly, the ID folks seem to generally do a lot of hemming and hawing at
this point.

To help them along, I suggest that they try to answer this question:
*Assuming* you are *right*, what would *then* have to be different if you
were wrong? What would the world be like if naturalism *were* true?

Be as specific as possible, because, the more specific you are, the more
likely you are to come up with something that can be tested.

But, be careful. Quick, glib responses based on ID theory will almost
certainly be mistaken in this case. Give it some thought. Mull it over in
your mind. "What would life be like if naturalism were true? Would there be
life at all? What would be different about a naturalistic world?" etc.,
etc., etc. If you come up with an idea, ask yourself, "Would that *really*
be true? What might an intelligent naturalist say about such an idea? Would
it *really* distinguish the two theories empirically?" etc., etc., etc.

Make long lists of possibilities. Examine each one carefully.

Then, if any survive your examination, get back to us.