On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:01:35 -0500, andrew wrote:
A>Hey I asked this thread to run on the assumptions of TE to get somewhere
>with a few things. Please don't import this captive bit here. It is already all
>over the place. I understand that at times you have recieved the same jabs
>but this is all nonsense.
Is Andrew here saying what Jesus warned of in Mat 6:24 and Paul in Col.
2:8 is "all nonsense"? Why are they there as warnings if it is not possible
for Christians to be taken captive unwittingly by a materialist-naturalist
evolutionary philosophy? And if it is possible for Christian's to be so taken
captive, wouldn't that explain why TE/ECs are so against their fellow
Christians who are creationists, and why they are so often commit
sub-Christian ad hominems against them on this Reflector?
TE/ECs is prima facie a candidate for these warnings because its very name
indicates that is an attempt to combine two totally opposed philosophies, ie.
Christian theism and naturalistic evolution. And TE/ECs give abundant
evidence in the pervasive nastiness of their posts to and about their fellow
Christians who are creationists.
It is quite common for TE/ECs on the Reflector to critically discuss the
personal motivation of creationists. Why should TE/ECs be exempt from this
same critical examination?
A>Every other post contains either insinuations of
>dire spiritual problems or cute rephrases of obviously "so and so" is an
>ignorant goof.
This is simply not true. I make no claims that anyone is an "ignorant goof".
Indeed a TE/EC (Kevin) has just charged a creationist (me) with
"ignorance" so maybe Andrew should direct his complaint elsewhere.
My claim in fact is that TE/ECs are *highly intelligent* and otherwise
fine Christians who have become "captive through [a] hollow and deceptive
philosophy" (Col 2:8), namely scientific materialism-naturalism.
A>Maybe folks dig it but what is the fruit?
The "fruit" is hopefully that TE/ECs will realise that they have been taken
"captive through [a] hollow and deceptive philosophy" (Col 2:8)! If it is
true, as I believe it is, then it needs to be said, no matter how unpopular it
is to say it.
A>The truth is
>working through all these questions is difficult for all,both educated and
>not. Our very meaning can be tied into the answers. I think the details and
>discussion are vital but this is no land for arrogance.
Agreed. But why is it "arrogance" for a creationist to challenge TE/ECs on
their philosophical position, but not if a TE/ECs does the same to a
creationist?
A>Most on this list would claim to follow Christ, well maybe TE or ID was
>clearly not one of his "main points" but love and honor were.
Agreed. It is precisely the fact that TE/ECs *do* "claim to follow Christ" yet
pervasively manifest a *lack* of Christian "love and honor" towards their
creationist Christian brothers which is one of the main bases on which I make
my claim that TE/ECs are unwittingly, to varying degrees, under the control of
a non-Christian philosophy! If TE/ECs started showing Christian "love and
honor" towards their creationist Christian brothers then my argument would
be refuted.
A>All on this list who are crossing that line would
>serve their Lord best by taking it down a notch no matter who threw the first
>ad homawhatever.
Disagree. I have been on this List on and off for the best part of 4 years. It
has *always* been this bad by TE/ECs and all attempts by creationists at
"taking it down a notch" has not worked. Most of the creationists have
been unable to take the TE/ECs sub-Christian intimidatory tactics and have
left.
A>Not to say weak ideas shouldn't be thrashed just humbly
>thrashed. Alright I am done.
Agreed. That is *exactly* what I am trying to do!
Thanks to Andrew for his input.
Steve
PS: Could Andrew please post his full name or at least his initials? Thanks.
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Stephen E. (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ Email: sejones@iinet.net.au
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Perth, Western Australia v "Test everything." (1 Thess. 5:21)
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