On Mon, 18 Dec 95 16:37:00 MST you wrote:
SJ>But how much real hard evidence is there for naturalistic
>micro-evolution above this interspecific variation level? In
>re-reading Johnson's DOT today I found this quote by P.P. Grasse:
>
>"The eminent French zoologist Pierre Grasse concluded that the results
>of artificial selection provide powerful testimony against Darwin's
>theory:
>
>`In spite of the intense pressure generated by artificial
>selection...over whole millennia, no new species are born... The
>fact is that selection gives tangible form to and gathers together
>all the varieties a genome is capable of producing, but does not
>constitute an innovative evolutionary process.' " (Grasse P.P.,
>"Evolution of Living Organisms" 1977, pp124-25)
JF>Duelling quotes, eh? Alors, en garde:
>
>The term "biological evolution" refers to the succession
>and variation in time of plant and animal forms. It implies
>that to parental continuity be added an internal tendency to
>modify certain structures and to create new ones. Zoologists
>and botanists are nearly unanimous in considering evolution as
>a fact and not a hypothesis. I agree with this position and
>base it primarily on documents provided by paleontology, i.e.,
>the history of the living world.
>Pierre-Paul Grasse [1895-?]
>Evolution of Living Organisms; Evidence For a New Theory of
> Transformation.
>Academic Press, 1977. ISBN 0-12-295550-1
>pages 3-4.
>From the preface to Traite de Zoologie:
>
>La comprehension du monde vivant est impossible sans le secours
>des principes evolutionnistes. Le chaos des formes ne s'ordonne
>qu'a la lumiere de l'Evolution.
>
>("Comprehension of the living world is impossible without the aid of
>evolutionary principles. The chaos of forms resolves itself
>only with the light of Evolution.")
Thanks Jim, but I was well aware that Grasse believed in something
called "the fact of evolution" but not in Darwinism. He was really
a type of Vitalist:
"The quotations from Pierre Grasse are from the 1977 English
translation of his book Evolution of Living Organisms, pp. 124-25,
130. This book was originally published in France in 1973 with the
title L'Evolution du Vivant. Grasse was an evolutionist, but an
anti-Darwinist...this viewpoint propelled him towards the heresy of
vitalism, which Darwinists regard as little better than creationism."
"...the great zoologist Grasse could do no better than to suggest that
evolving species somehow acquire a new store of genetic information
due to obscure "internal factors" involving "a phenomenon whose
equivalent cannot be seen in the creatures living at the present time
(either because it is not there or because we are unable to see it)."
Grasse was all too aware that such talk "arouses the suspicions of
many biologists [because] it conjures up visions of the ghost of
vitalism or of some mystical power which guides the destiny of living
things he repeatedly denied that he had anything of the sort in mind,
but suspicions of vitalism once aroused are not conjured away by bare
denials."
(Johnson P.E., "Darwin on Trial", Second Edition, 1993, InterVarsity
Press, Illinois, pp43-44, 174)
Perhaps you would care to address Grasse's substantive point that
"[natural] selection...does not constitute an innovative evolutionary
process."
SJ>The thing to note here is that Grasse was no redneck creationist
>with a degree in hydraulic engineering. He was a former President of
JF>Oooh, I would never say anything that nasty!
>Speaking of Henry, the ICR now has a web page: http://www.icr.org/.
>Nothing much there yet, though.
Who mentioned "Henry"? :-) Actually, though I disagree with them on
some things, I don't think any of the ICR are "redneck creationists",
but that's one of the milder things that some Darwinists call them.
Thanks for the Web page reference.
Happy New Year!
Stephen
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