Re: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

From: John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jan 31 2009 - 19:10:20 EST

Too late. RTB just yanked their Taggle forum and also put the kibosh on any discussion of TE or CD on their forum. It has been getting a little to close for comfort for them and they can't let that genie get out of the bottle.

Thanks

John

--- On Fri, 1/30/09, James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> From: James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)
> To: "'ASA'" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 7:08 AM
> James Patterson here. RTB member. Yes, I'm still here!
>
> I see the same problem here that I see in RTB's
> listserve...a group of
> like-minded people discussing things. You won't get any
> replies or
> discussion from the RTB camp since I am the only active
> member here, and all
> I can say is that you'd have to ask Fuz. However, I
> think most of the
> references, and answers are in "Who Was Adam?".
> But that's not the point of
> this reply.
>
> If you would actually like to discuss issues like this (as
> well as anything
> else), with other groups (not just RTB) I suggest that you
> consider Taggle.
> I believe Randy's gotten an invitation from Daniel
> McCarthy. It is a place
> where you can discuss topics in forums, share ideas, share
> documents,
> videos, photos, audio files, write blogs, etc. You can do
> all of this in the
> public forum, open to all churches and organizations, and
> you can do this in
> your own private area, dedicated and open only to ASA.
>
> The forum in the private section would serve much like the
> ASA listserve
> does now, and the forum in the public section would serve
> as a place for
> "cross-pollination".
>
> Currently, it's just getting started, and so
> there's only two churches, and
> RTB. I think it has great potential to serve as a meeting
> place for
> Christians with a desire to learn more, not just about
> their own beliefs,
> but about the beliefs of others. In that same vein, it is a
> great place to
> share what you believe, test your beliefs against others in
> a common forum,
> and search for the truth. Make that...Truth.
>
> The link: http://taggleinc.com
>
> God bless, JP
>
> PS: Still reading "Perspectives on an Evolving
> Creation" Excellent book,
> well written and edited, and I have tons of margin notes to
> discuss, once I
> finish. I've been distracted several times by other
> projects. Currently
> reading Bob Russell's chapter - very intriguing. :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:21 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: What Darwin Didn't Know article
> by Dr. Fuz Rana
>
> Oh, I quite agree - if it WAS a mistake (as I suggest it
> was) to use
> "mitochondrial Eve" as a descriptive due to its
> potential for confusion then
> somebody like Rana - who KNOWS the science and KNOWS the
> biblical story - is
> doubly culpable for propagating rather than rectifying the
> confusion.
>
> I was thinking, rather, in terms of broad public perception
> and that the
> reason such comments have an audience is because somebody
> adopted a label
> which is just a bit too evocative!
>
> It might, additionally, simply reinforce my remarks about
> conservative
> Christians not having categories for certain types of
> statement - after all,
> those who have some appreciation of non-literal statements
> would hardly fall
> into the trap of assuming that "mitochondrial
> Eve" means "the first truly
> human woman from whom we are all directly descended".
>
> Have you noticed that, when it comes to the origins debate,
> scientists can't
> win....
>
> Blessings,
> Murray
>
> David Opderbeck wrote:
> > True, except that Rana is a microbiologist, has read
> the relevant
> > literature, and knows better.
> >
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Murray Hogg
> <muzhogg@netspace.net.au
> > <mailto:muzhogg@netspace.net.au>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I was reflecting about this overnight and it
> struck me that
> > scientists probably only have themeselves to blame
> when they choose
> > to engage in fanciful comments about
> "mitochondrial Eve".
> > Personally, I'd have thought the potential for
> misunderstanding and
> > misrepresentation would be obvious.
> >
> > It's probably one for filing under "What
> on earth were they thinking!"
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Murray.
> >
> > David Opderbeck wrote:
> >
> > It's truly disappointing and frustrating
> that Rana continues to
> > popularize the notion that mitochondrial DNA
> studies "attest[]
> > to" what Rana would offer as the Biblical
> notion of Adam and
> > Eve. He knows better. He knows that mDNA
> studies don't
> > establish a single Adam or Eve who were
> contemporary with each
> > other, he knows that both mitchondrial Eve
> certainly lived among
> > a population of many other breeding pairs, and
> he knows of
> > Ayala's "Myth of Mitochondrial
> Eve" paper and other similar
> > population genetics studies. Any popular
> article or talk that
> > makes such claims and doesn't address the
> foregoing is simply
> > misleading.
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science &
> Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM, D. F.
> Siemens, Jr.
> > <dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:07:01 -0800 (PST)
> John Walley
> > <john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > FYI..
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Fuz Rana has a very good
> article in the latest
> Charisma
> > > > magazine entitled What Darwin
> Didn't
> > > > Know. Here is the link to it.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://charismamag.com/issues/index.php/cm209
> > > >
> > There are two matters that I didn't
> note having comments. The
> > first:
> > "But some of the most recent advances
> related to hominid-human
> > relationships raise questions about
> evolution's validity. In
> 1997
> > fragments of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA
> from a 40,000- to
> > 100,000-year-old skeleton were found in
> West Germany. When
> > scientists
> > compared them with the corresponding
> fragment of human DNA, the
> > researchers discovered that Neanderthals
> made no contribution
> > to human
> > genetics."
> >
> > What does a lack of contribution from
> contemporaries have to
> > do with
> > evolution? The claim is that Homo sapiens,
> H.
> > neanderthalensis and
> > now H.
> > floresiensis (?) all share ancestry, not
> that one is the
> > ancestor of the
> > others. Since H.s. and H.n. had overlapping
> ranges, I suggest
> > that some
> > modern Europeans could still have
> Neanderthal inheritance.
> > Mitochondrial
> > DNA is inherited only though the mother.
> So, if a H.s. male
> > fathered a
> > son with a H.n. female, and the son
> fathered offspring with a
> > H.s.
> > female, there would be no evidence in the
> mitochondria of the
> > H.n.
> > genetics, though the chromosomal
> inheritence might be retained.
> >
> > The second:
> > "Scientific consensus confirms that
> humanity originated about
> > 100,000
> > years ago in east Africa near the location
> ascribed to the
> > Garden of
> > Eden."
> >
> > I'll not use the vulgar but appropriate
> term to describe the
> > claim that
> > East Africa is the Near East.
> > Dave (ASA)
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
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Received on Sat Jan 31 19:10:43 2009

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