Re: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
Date: Sat Jan 31 2009 - 19:33:27 EST

Did they actually publish something saying it can't be discussed?

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Too late. RTB just yanked their Taggle forum and also put the kibosh on any
> discussion of TE or CD on their forum. It has been getting a little to close
> for comfort for them and they can't let that genie get out of the bottle.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/30/09, James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > From: James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)
> > To: "'ASA'" <asa@calvin.edu>
> > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 7:08 AM
> > James Patterson here. RTB member. Yes, I'm still here!
> >
> > I see the same problem here that I see in RTB's
> > listserve...a group of
> > like-minded people discussing things. You won't get any
> > replies or
> > discussion from the RTB camp since I am the only active
> > member here, and all
> > I can say is that you'd have to ask Fuz. However, I
> > think most of the
> > references, and answers are in "Who Was Adam?".
> > But that's not the point of
> > this reply.
> >
> > If you would actually like to discuss issues like this (as
> > well as anything
> > else), with other groups (not just RTB) I suggest that you
> > consider Taggle.
> > I believe Randy's gotten an invitation from Daniel
> > McCarthy. It is a place
> > where you can discuss topics in forums, share ideas, share
> > documents,
> > videos, photos, audio files, write blogs, etc. You can do
> > all of this in the
> > public forum, open to all churches and organizations, and
> > you can do this in
> > your own private area, dedicated and open only to ASA.
> >
> > The forum in the private section would serve much like the
> > ASA listserve
> > does now, and the forum in the public section would serve
> > as a place for
> > "cross-pollination".
> >
> > Currently, it's just getting started, and so
> > there's only two churches, and
> > RTB. I think it has great potential to serve as a meeting
> > place for
> > Christians with a desire to learn more, not just about
> > their own beliefs,
> > but about the beliefs of others. In that same vein, it is a
> > great place to
> > share what you believe, test your beliefs against others in
> > a common forum,
> > and search for the truth. Make that...Truth.
> >
> > The link: http://taggleinc.com
> >
> > God bless, JP
> >
> > PS: Still reading "Perspectives on an Evolving
> > Creation" Excellent book,
> > well written and edited, and I have tons of margin notes to
> > discuss, once I
> > finish. I've been distracted several times by other
> > projects. Currently
> > reading Bob Russell's chapter - very intriguing. :)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> > [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:21 PM
> > To: ASA
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: What Darwin Didn't Know article
> > by Dr. Fuz Rana
> >
> > Oh, I quite agree - if it WAS a mistake (as I suggest it
> > was) to use
> > "mitochondrial Eve" as a descriptive due to its
> > potential for confusion then
> > somebody like Rana - who KNOWS the science and KNOWS the
> > biblical story - is
> > doubly culpable for propagating rather than rectifying the
> > confusion.
> >
> > I was thinking, rather, in terms of broad public perception
> > and that the
> > reason such comments have an audience is because somebody
> > adopted a label
> > which is just a bit too evocative!
> >
> > It might, additionally, simply reinforce my remarks about
> > conservative
> > Christians not having categories for certain types of
> > statement - after all,
> > those who have some appreciation of non-literal statements
> > would hardly fall
> > into the trap of assuming that "mitochondrial
> > Eve" means "the first truly
> > human woman from whom we are all directly descended".
> >
> > Have you noticed that, when it comes to the origins debate,
> > scientists can't
> > win....
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Murray
> >
> > David Opderbeck wrote:
> > > True, except that Rana is a microbiologist, has read
> > the relevant
> > > literature, and knows better.
> > >
> > > David W. Opderbeck
> > > Associate Professor of Law
> > > Seton Hall University Law School
> > > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Murray Hogg
> > <muzhogg@netspace.net.au
> > > <mailto:muzhogg@netspace.net.au>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > I was reflecting about this overnight and it
> > struck me that
> > > scientists probably only have themeselves to blame
> > when they choose
> > > to engage in fanciful comments about
> > "mitochondrial Eve".
> > > Personally, I'd have thought the potential for
> > misunderstanding and
> > > misrepresentation would be obvious.
> > >
> > > It's probably one for filing under "What
> > on earth were they thinking!"
> > >
> > > Blessings,
> > > Murray.
> > >
> > > David Opderbeck wrote:
> > >
> > > It's truly disappointing and frustrating
> > that Rana continues to
> > > popularize the notion that mitochondrial DNA
> > studies "attest[]
> > > to" what Rana would offer as the Biblical
> > notion of Adam and
> > > Eve. He knows better. He knows that mDNA
> > studies don't
> > > establish a single Adam or Eve who were
> > contemporary with each
> > > other, he knows that both mitchondrial Eve
> > certainly lived among
> > > a population of many other breeding pairs, and
> > he knows of
> > > Ayala's "Myth of Mitochondrial
> > Eve" paper and other similar
> > > population genetics studies. Any popular
> > article or talk that
> > > makes such claims and doesn't address the
> > foregoing is simply
> > > misleading.
> > > David W. Opderbeck
> > > Associate Professor of Law
> > > Seton Hall University Law School
> > > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science &
> > Technology
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM, D. F.
> > Siemens, Jr.
> > > <dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> > > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:07:01 -0800 (PST)
> > John Walley
> > > <john_walley@yahoo.com
> > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
> > > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com
> > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>>
> > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > FYI..
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Fuz Rana has a very good
> > article in the latest
> > Charisma
> > > > > magazine entitled What Darwin
> > Didn't
> > > > > Know. Here is the link to it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://charismamag.com/issues/index.php/cm209
> > > > >
> > > There are two matters that I didn't
> > note having comments. The
> > > first:
> > > "But some of the most recent advances
> > related to hominid-human
> > > relationships raise questions about
> > evolution's validity. In
> > 1997
> > > fragments of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA
> > from a 40,000- to
> > > 100,000-year-old skeleton were found in
> > West Germany. When
> > > scientists
> > > compared them with the corresponding
> > fragment of human DNA, the
> > > researchers discovered that Neanderthals
> > made no contribution
> > > to human
> > > genetics."
> > >
> > > What does a lack of contribution from
> > contemporaries have to
> > > do with
> > > evolution? The claim is that Homo sapiens,
> > H.
> > > neanderthalensis and
> > > now H.
> > > floresiensis (?) all share ancestry, not
> > that one is the
> > > ancestor of the
> > > others. Since H.s. and H.n. had overlapping
> > ranges, I suggest
> > > that some
> > > modern Europeans could still have
> > Neanderthal inheritance.
> > > Mitochondrial
> > > DNA is inherited only though the mother.
> > So, if a H.s. male
> > > fathered a
> > > son with a H.n. female, and the son
> > fathered offspring with a
> > > H.s.
> > > female, there would be no evidence in the
> > mitochondria of the
> > > H.n.
> > > genetics, though the chromosomal
> > inheritence might be retained.
> > >
> > > The second:
> > > "Scientific consensus confirms that
> > humanity originated about
> > > 100,000
> > > years ago in east Africa near the location
> > ascribed to the
> > > Garden of
> > > Eden."
> > >
> > > I'll not use the vulgar but appropriate
> > term to describe the
> > > claim that
> > > East Africa is the Near East.
> > > Dave (ASA)
> > >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > > Click now to find a divorce attorney near
> > you!
> > >
> > >
> >
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> > zkzafb3a1VQUal5LDeMC5/
> > >
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Received on Sat Jan 31 19:33:44 2009

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