[asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

James Patterson here. RTB member. Yes, I'm still here!

I see the same problem here that I see in RTB's listserve...a group of
like-minded people discussing things. You won't get any replies or
discussion from the RTB camp since I am the only active member here, and all
I can say is that you'd have to ask Fuz. However, I think most of the
references, and answers are in "Who Was Adam?". But that's not the point of
this reply.

If you would actually like to discuss issues like this (as well as anything
else), with other groups (not just RTB) I suggest that you consider Taggle.
I believe Randy's gotten an invitation from Daniel McCarthy. It is a place
where you can discuss topics in forums, share ideas, share documents,
videos, photos, audio files, write blogs, etc. You can do all of this in the
public forum, open to all churches and organizations, and you can do this in
your own private area, dedicated and open only to ASA.

The forum in the private section would serve much like the ASA listserve
does now, and the forum in the public section would serve as a place for
"cross-pollination".

Currently, it's just getting started, and so there's only two churches, and
RTB. I think it has great potential to serve as a meeting place for
Christians with a desire to learn more, not just about their own beliefs,
but about the beliefs of others. In that same vein, it is a great place to
share what you believe, test your beliefs against others in a common forum,
and search for the truth. Make that...Truth.

The link: http://taggleinc.com

God bless, JP

PS: Still reading "Perspectives on an Evolving Creation" Excellent book,
well written and edited, and I have tons of margin notes to discuss, once I
finish. I've been distracted several times by other projects. Currently
reading Bob Russell's chapter - very intriguing. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Murray Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:21 PM
To: ASA
Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: What Darwin Didn't Know article by Dr. Fuz Rana

Oh, I quite agree - if it WAS a mistake (as I suggest it was) to use
"mitochondrial Eve" as a descriptive due to its potential for confusion then
somebody like Rana - who KNOWS the science and KNOWS the biblical story - is
doubly culpable for propagating rather than rectifying the confusion.

I was thinking, rather, in terms of broad public perception and that the
reason such comments have an audience is because somebody adopted a label
which is just a bit too evocative!

It might, additionally, simply reinforce my remarks about conservative
Christians not having categories for certain types of statement - after all,
those who have some appreciation of non-literal statements would hardly fall
into the trap of assuming that "mitochondrial Eve" means "the first truly
human woman from whom we are all directly descended".

Have you noticed that, when it comes to the origins debate, scientists can't
win....

Blessings,
Murray

David Opderbeck wrote:
> True, except that Rana is a microbiologist, has read the relevant
> literature, and knows better.
>
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au
> <mailto:muzhogg@netspace.net.au>> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> I was reflecting about this overnight and it struck me that
> scientists probably only have themeselves to blame when they choose
> to engage in fanciful comments about "mitochondrial Eve".
> Personally, I'd have thought the potential for misunderstanding and
> misrepresentation would be obvious.
>
> It's probably one for filing under "What on earth were they thinking!"
>
> Blessings,
> Murray.
>
> David Opderbeck wrote:
>
> It's truly disappointing and frustrating that Rana continues to
> popularize the notion that mitochondrial DNA studies "attest[]
> to" what Rana would offer as the Biblical notion of Adam and
> Eve. He knows better. He knows that mDNA studies don't
> establish a single Adam or Eve who were contemporary with each
> other, he knows that both mitchondrial Eve certainly lived among
> a population of many other breeding pairs, and he knows of
> Ayala's "Myth of Mitochondrial Eve" paper and other similar
> population genetics studies. Any popular article or talk that
> makes such claims and doesn't address the foregoing is simply
> misleading.
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM, D. F. Siemens, Jr.
> <dfsiemensjr@juno.com <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>>
wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:07:01 -0800 (PST) John Walley
> <john_walley@yahoo.com <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>>
> writes:
> >
> > FYI..
> >
> > >
> > > Dr. Fuz Rana has a very good article in the latest
Charisma
> > > magazine entitled What Darwin Didn't
> > > Know. Here is the link to it.
> > >
> > > http://charismamag.com/issues/index.php/cm209
> > >
> There are two matters that I didn't note having comments. The
> first:
> "But some of the most recent advances related to hominid-human
> relationships raise questions about evolution's validity. In
1997
> fragments of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA from a 40,000- to
> 100,000-year-old skeleton were found in West Germany. When
> scientists
> compared them with the corresponding fragment of human DNA, the
> researchers discovered that Neanderthals made no contribution
> to human
> genetics."
>
> What does a lack of contribution from contemporaries have to
> do with
> evolution? The claim is that Homo sapiens, H.
> neanderthalensis and
> now H.
> floresiensis (?) all share ancestry, not that one is the
> ancestor of the
> others. Since H.s. and H.n. had overlapping ranges, I suggest
> that some
> modern Europeans could still have Neanderthal inheritance.
> Mitochondrial
> DNA is inherited only though the mother. So, if a H.s. male
> fathered a
> son with a H.n. female, and the son fathered offspring with a
> H.s.
> female, there would be no evidence in the mitochondria of the
> H.n.
> genetics, though the chromosomal inheritence might be retained.
>
> The second:
> "Scientific consensus confirms that humanity originated about
> 100,000
> years ago in east Africa near the location ascribed to the
> Garden of
> Eden."
>
> I'll not use the vulgar but appropriate term to describe the
> claim that
> East Africa is the Near East.
> Dave (ASA)
> ____________________________________________________________
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Received on Fri Jan 30 07:09:56 2009