Re: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

Jim, I did ask Fuz about this last year. He acknowledged that the MHC
studies weren't addressed in Who Was Adam. He mentioned that he was
planning to write something on the MHC studies, but I have yet to see that.
I really hate to be so blunt, because I otherwise respect Fuz and RTB, even
if I disagree on some things, but: knowing about the MHC studies and
continuing to publish popular articles touting Mitochondrial Eve without
addressing the problems they raise is not honest.

David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM, James Patterson
<james000777@bellsouth.net>wrote:

> James Patterson here. RTB member. Yes, I'm still here!
>
> I see the same problem here that I see in RTB's listserve...a group of
> like-minded people discussing things. You won't get any replies or
> discussion from the RTB camp since I am the only active member here, and
> all
> I can say is that you'd have to ask Fuz. However, I think most of the
> references, and answers are in "Who Was Adam?". But that's not the point of
> this reply.
>
> If you would actually like to discuss issues like this (as well as anything
> else), with other groups (not just RTB) I suggest that you consider Taggle.
> I believe Randy's gotten an invitation from Daniel McCarthy. It is a place
> where you can discuss topics in forums, share ideas, share documents,
> videos, photos, audio files, write blogs, etc. You can do all of this in
> the
> public forum, open to all churches and organizations, and you can do this
> in
> your own private area, dedicated and open only to ASA.
>
> The forum in the private section would serve much like the ASA listserve
> does now, and the forum in the public section would serve as a place for
> "cross-pollination".
>
> Currently, it's just getting started, and so there's only two churches, and
> RTB. I think it has great potential to serve as a meeting place for
> Christians with a desire to learn more, not just about their own beliefs,
> but about the beliefs of others. In that same vein, it is a great place to
> share what you believe, test your beliefs against others in a common forum,
> and search for the truth. Make that...Truth.
>
> The link: http://taggleinc.com
>
> God bless, JP
>
> PS: Still reading "Perspectives on an Evolving Creation" Excellent book,
> well written and edited, and I have tons of margin notes to discuss, once I
> finish. I've been distracted several times by other projects. Currently
> reading Bob Russell's chapter - very intriguing. :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:21 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: What Darwin Didn't Know article by Dr. Fuz Rana
>
> Oh, I quite agree - if it WAS a mistake (as I suggest it was) to use
> "mitochondrial Eve" as a descriptive due to its potential for confusion
> then
> somebody like Rana - who KNOWS the science and KNOWS the biblical story -
> is
> doubly culpable for propagating rather than rectifying the confusion.
>
> I was thinking, rather, in terms of broad public perception and that the
> reason such comments have an audience is because somebody adopted a label
> which is just a bit too evocative!
>
> It might, additionally, simply reinforce my remarks about conservative
> Christians not having categories for certain types of statement - after
> all,
> those who have some appreciation of non-literal statements would hardly
> fall
> into the trap of assuming that "mitochondrial Eve" means "the first truly
> human woman from whom we are all directly descended".
>
> Have you noticed that, when it comes to the origins debate, scientists
> can't
> win....
>
> Blessings,
> Murray
>
> David Opderbeck wrote:
> > True, except that Rana is a microbiologist, has read the relevant
> > literature, and knows better.
> >
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au
> > <mailto:muzhogg@netspace.net.au>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I was reflecting about this overnight and it struck me that
> > scientists probably only have themeselves to blame when they choose
> > to engage in fanciful comments about "mitochondrial Eve".
> > Personally, I'd have thought the potential for misunderstanding and
> > misrepresentation would be obvious.
> >
> > It's probably one for filing under "What on earth were they
> thinking!"
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Murray.
> >
> > David Opderbeck wrote:
> >
> > It's truly disappointing and frustrating that Rana continues to
> > popularize the notion that mitochondrial DNA studies "attest[]
> > to" what Rana would offer as the Biblical notion of Adam and
> > Eve. He knows better. He knows that mDNA studies don't
> > establish a single Adam or Eve who were contemporary with each
> > other, he knows that both mitchondrial Eve certainly lived among
> > a population of many other breeding pairs, and he knows of
> > Ayala's "Myth of Mitochondrial Eve" paper and other similar
> > population genetics studies. Any popular article or talk that
> > makes such claims and doesn't address the foregoing is simply
> > misleading.
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM, D. F. Siemens, Jr.
> > <dfsiemensjr@juno.com <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:07:01 -0800 (PST) John Walley
> > <john_walley@yahoo.com <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > FYI..
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Fuz Rana has a very good article in the latest
> Charisma
> > > > magazine entitled What Darwin Didn't
> > > > Know. Here is the link to it.
> > > >
> > > > http://charismamag.com/issues/index.php/cm209
> > > >
> > There are two matters that I didn't note having comments. The
> > first:
> > "But some of the most recent advances related to hominid-human
> > relationships raise questions about evolution's validity. In
> 1997
> > fragments of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA from a 40,000- to
> > 100,000-year-old skeleton were found in West Germany. When
> > scientists
> > compared them with the corresponding fragment of human DNA,
> the
> > researchers discovered that Neanderthals made no contribution
> > to human
> > genetics."
> >
> > What does a lack of contribution from contemporaries have to
> > do with
> > evolution? The claim is that Homo sapiens, H.
> > neanderthalensis and
> > now H.
> > floresiensis (?) all share ancestry, not that one is the
> > ancestor of the
> > others. Since H.s. and H.n. had overlapping ranges, I suggest
> > that some
> > modern Europeans could still have Neanderthal inheritance.
> > Mitochondrial
> > DNA is inherited only though the mother. So, if a H.s. male
> > fathered a
> > son with a H.n. female, and the son fathered offspring with a
> > H.s.
> > female, there would be no evidence in the mitochondria of the
> > H.n.
> > genetics, though the chromosomal inheritence might be
> retained.
> >
> > The second:
> > "Scientific consensus confirms that humanity originated about
> > 100,000
> > years ago in east Africa near the location ascribed to the
> > Garden of
> > Eden."
> >
> > I'll not use the vulgar but appropriate term to describe the
> > claim that
> > East Africa is the Near East.
> > Dave (ASA)
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Click now to find a divorce attorney near you!
> >
> >
>
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Received on Fri Jan 30 08:43:59 2009