From: sheila-mcginty@geotec.net
Date: Thu Aug 07 2003 - 11:04:24 EDT
Burgy asked:
> Tell me, George, just who will suffer, and in what way. Who is
> "suffering," for instance, in the Episcopal church this week after
> Robinson was voted in? I will agree that some folks are darn unhappy
> that their particular views are being rejected, but I do not equate such
> unhappiness with "suffering." Maybe you do.
Jesus Christ suffered because homosexual behavior is a sin (Hebrews 9:28,
Romans 3:25, Hebrews 10:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10). The bishop in the
Episcopal church is not being held accountable for his sin but is being
promoted because of or in spite of his sin. Matthew 18:15-17 gives clear
instruction of what to do when someone sins:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the
two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he
will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be
established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'If he refuses to listen
to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church,
treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Treating someone as a pagan or tax collector is the opposite of making him the
bishop of a church.
Sheila
Quoting John W Burgeson <jwburgeson@juno.com>:
> I had written:" For a church to do this, such persons ought to
> > be admitted as full members, and eligible as such to hold any church
> > office."
>
> George replied: " Well, no. There are many other people who are
> admitted
> to full membership in
> the church but who for various reasons will not be approved for
> ordination. Ordination
> is not a "right" that all Christians have. Whether or not a person is
> to
> serve in the
> pastoral office is not finally determined by that person thinking that
> he
> or she should
> be a pastor but by the call of the church."
>
> I can hardly believe you missed my point. I specifically said
> "eligible."
> Of course, I agree completely with all that you have written above.
>
> I went on to write: " At present my church (PCUSA) and, I think, your
> church (ELCA) will admit
> > such persons as members but denies them eligibility to serve in
> ordained
> > offices, thus making them, in a sense, 2nd class members."
>
> You wrote: "A foreign-born citizen of the United States is not a "2nd
> class citizen" but
> he/she cannot be president."
>
> Yes. And, as the father of three fine US citizens who were born in
> another country, I'm not altogether happy with that. To an extent, I
> will
> argue, they ARE 2nd class citizens, as are all naturalized immigrants.
> It
> is not possible, for instance, for the US government to take away my US
> citizenship (at least not legally) but it is possible for them to take
> away that of my three children. Such has been done. I do not argue that
> this is either good or bad; only that it is a fact, and because it is a
> fact the appellation of "2nd class" is to some extent justified.
>
> Finally, I wrote: "> My guess is that this will change, but the change
> will not come for
> > another 5 or 10 years. In the meanwhile, some people will suffer."
>
> George replied: " & if the change comes it will have a devastating
> effect
> at least on the ELCA and
> many people will suffer."
>
> Tell me, George, just who will suffer, and in what way. Who is
> "suffering," for instance, in the Episcopal church this week after
> Robinson was voted in? I will agree that some folks are darn unhappy
> that
> their particular views are being rejected, but I do not equate such
> unhappiness with "suffering." Maybe you do.
>
> John Burgeson (Burgy)
>
> www.burgy.50megs.com
>
>
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Sheila McGinty Wilson
sheila-mcginty@geotec.net
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