Re: Sin?

From: John W Burgeson (jwburgeson@juno.com)
Date: Thu Aug 07 2003 - 09:25:55 EDT

  • Next message: John W Burgeson: "Re: Sin?"

    I had written:" For a church to do this, such persons ought to
    > be admitted as full members, and eligible as such to hold any church
    > office."

    George replied: " Well, no. There are many other people who are admitted
    to full membership in
    the church but who for various reasons will not be approved for
    ordination. Ordination
    is not a "right" that all Christians have. Whether or not a person is to
    serve in the
    pastoral office is not finally determined by that person thinking that he
    or she should
    be a pastor but by the call of the church."

    I can hardly believe you missed my point. I specifically said "eligible."
    Of course, I agree completely with all that you have written above.

    I went on to write: " At present my church (PCUSA) and, I think, your
    church (ELCA) will admit
    > such persons as members but denies them eligibility to serve in
    ordained
    > offices, thus making them, in a sense, 2nd class members."

    You wrote: "A foreign-born citizen of the United States is not a "2nd
    class citizen" but
    he/she cannot be president."

    Yes. And, as the father of three fine US citizens who were born in
    another country, I'm not altogether happy with that. To an extent, I will
    argue, they ARE 2nd class citizens, as are all naturalized immigrants. It
    is not possible, for instance, for the US government to take away my US
    citizenship (at least not legally) but it is possible for them to take
    away that of my three children. Such has been done. I do not argue that
    this is either good or bad; only that it is a fact, and because it is a
    fact the appellation of "2nd class" is to some extent justified.

    Finally, I wrote: "> My guess is that this will change, but the change
    will not come for
    > another 5 or 10 years. In the meanwhile, some people will suffer."

    George replied: " & if the change comes it will have a devastating effect
    at least on the ELCA and
    many people will suffer."

    Tell me, George, just who will suffer, and in what way. Who is
    "suffering," for instance, in the Episcopal church this week after
    Robinson was voted in? I will agree that some folks are darn unhappy that
    their particular views are being rejected, but I do not equate such
    unhappiness with "suffering." Maybe you do.

    John Burgeson (Burgy)

    www.burgy.50megs.com

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