From: Robert Schneider (rjschn39@bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu Apr 10 2003 - 07:33:31 EDT
The god Augustine came to know through Neoplatonism is Pascal's "god of the
philosophers"; Augustine had to discover the God of Jesus Christ through
Scripture. A god of the philosophers is not necessarily a creator god.
Aristotle's unmoved mover was not; his world was eternal, as was the world
of other ancient philosophical systems. However they conceived of its
"coming into being and passing away," its constituent elements were eternal.
The ancients could argue that the world as presently constituted was
intelligently designed (as Cicero did on Stoic principles in _De natura
deorum_) without maintaining that the world was a creation.
Bob Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Winterstein" <dfwinterstein@msn.com>
To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Benjamin Wiker on ID
> George wrote:
>
> > ...The attempt to know God from nature, independently of revelation,
> usually
> > results in the construction of idols - of which the Intelligent Designer
> or the God who
> > "left his fingerprints all over the evidence" may be examples.
>
> St. Augustine in his Confessions describes how he came to know God first
> through study and practice of Neoplatonism. Philosophy is nature perhaps
> one step removed. After his conversion to Christianity, Augustine still
> considered this religious experience to have given him valid knowledge of
> God. It was, however, he concluded later, not saving knowledge.
>
> If by "revelation" you mean more than just Scripture, then Augustine's
> Neoplatonic experience might be included. Abraham and Melchizedek, etc.,
> obviously had no Scripture, but they had revelation. So I suppose I agree
> with you if you're willing to accept a definition of revelation that
> includes more than just canonical Scripture.
>
> However, I don't think people become idolaters by attempting to know God.
> True idolatry--i.e., the setting up and worshiping of idols--is just the
> natural human response to the "powers of the air." Implicit forms of
> idolatry--such as the Bible worship that leads to efforts like "creation
> research"--is often an attempt to substitute the authority of a thing for
a
> relationship with the Person. So implicit idolatry would be done to avoid
> the attempt to know God. Who needs the Person if you have the Thing?
Both
> true and implicit forms of idolatry thus do not involve any effort to
reach
> God but rather detour around him.
>
> Don
>
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