Re: Religious Beliefs that *Require* the Falsehood of Scientific Theories (was: we have witnessed no new species emerge in the wild?)

From: Stephen E. Jones (sejones@iinet.net.au)
Date: Sun Dec 31 2000 - 09:48:07 EST

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    Reflectorites

    This is my last post on this thread. Apologies for it being rushed.

    --Original Message Text---
    From: Chris Cogan
    Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:06:56 -0600

    >SJ>>I don't say "science doesn't know X therefore my religion is true!" I have
    >>stated many times that I would have no problem with my religion if
    >>evolution was true. In fact for about 15 years as a Christian I believed that
    >>evolution was probably true and just God's means of creating.

    >CC>No, you say, "if science *does* know X, then my religion *isn't* true,"
    >which, in practice, is nearly the same thing.

    No, I don't say this at all.

    CC>That is, *your* religion can
    >*only* be true if naturalistic evolution is false, so it *absolutely* depends
    >on science not knowing that it *IS* true.

    No. See my post to Susan in this session.

    CC>It is a fundamental and absolutely
    >crucial mistake to make your religious belief dependent on whether some
    >purely scientific theory is true *or* false.

    Agreed. I don't do this.

    CC>In *general*, it is a mistake to
    >make *any* critical philosophical premise dependent on whether any such a
    >theory is true or false

    See above.

    CC>In other words, *if* it is possible for science to
    >resolve a question, then any particular supposed answer to *that* question
    >should *not* be part of your *philosophical* system

    Maybe for philosophy. Not for Christianity. The science of archaeology can
    any day dig up a 1st century grave marked "Jesus of Nazareth" and Christianity
    would be falsified.

    CC>Why? Because it is then *not* a primarily philosophical question. It is a
    >*scientific* one

    See above.

    CC>And, *because* it is scientific, it *cannot* have the kind
    >of foundation that a strictly philosophical proposition can have, and it is
    >subject to empirical falsification

    See above.

    CC>Philosophical claims are of such fundamentality that they cannot come in
    >conflict with genuine empirical fact and genuine scientific theory (this is
    >one of the reasons why the indeterminism of the "Copenhagen
    >Interpretation" of Quantum Mechanics is not scientific; it is *not*
    >resolvable, even in principle, by empirical observation *except* by being
    >empirically *falsified*)

    See above.

    CC>Your *religion* absolutely requires you to reject naturalistic evolution
    >*regardless* of the empirical facts. That's a bad, bad, *bad* mistake, in
    >*any* religion.

    I agree, but I don't do that. See my post to Susan on this veru question
    in this session.

    Thanks to Chris for this post.

    [...]

    Steve

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