At 04:52 PM 12/02/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Chris,
>Descent with modification existed as a concept before Darwin. Darwin's only
>contribution was the mechanism - tiny random mutations, which natural
>selection created into complex biological systems by picking and choosing.
>Darwin himself stated that if any biological system proved to be too complex
>to be created in this way, his system would prove to be invalid.
Darwin knew nothing about mutations. Genes were rediscovered about 40 years
after he died (I think that's the 2nd or 3rd time I've told you that.) He
only knew about variation which is obvious to the casual observer. The
Darwin quote that you mention above is always quoted by creationists
without the last sentence "And none have yet been found." That was 140
years ago and *still* none have yet been found. Behe's examples of "systems
too complex to have been have been created this way" have proven to be
untrue one by one.
>Some
>scientists, such as Behe, now claim that many, if not all, biological systems
>are too complex to have been "created" by natural selection.
One of Behe's examples was shown to have an evolutionary history the same
year his book was published. Behe is betting on our continued ignorance.
It's a bad bet.
>If, as you
>claim, "most scientists" no longer regard Darwin's theory the explanation of
>evolution, all they have to do is say so. Much of the controversy would
>disappear, for it is not "evolution" that most critics question, but
>specifically "the creation of complex biological systems by RM&NS".
And I've shown you over and over that "most critics" of evolution object to
common descent and the long history of life, both of which they think
conflicts with the Bible (they don't). "Random" mutations and natural
selection are your personal bugbears. Most creationists now accept at least
"micro" evolution, which is the only kind that actually exists. They think
that "macro" evolution is something special and magical that can't exist
because it would mean that Earth has a long history and that all plants and
animals have a shared ancestry.
>Some
>people use the term "imperfect copying" (of DNA I assume) instead of random
>mutation. This language certainly implies "accidental" and "lacking
>intelligence or purpose".
you are correct that mutations are often replication errors and therefore
there is no direction or purpose to them. But why must there be purpose at
the microscopic level?
You have been talking about "cell intelligence" and the more you talk about
it the more it sounds like variation and natural selection. Your New Age
friends would probably want to opt for something like a soul that inhabits
all living things and "directs" their evolution--and leave the microbiology
out of it. That still wouldn't explain why some souls direct their
organisms to extinction--the Irish Elk leaps to mind here and, of course,
all the dinosaurs. Perhaps sometimes even on the cosmic level shit just
happens and souls move on.
I know the seeming lack of "purpose" in evolution is what drives a lot of
anti-evolutionists. I've had people tell me "I don't believe in God but I
believe everything that happens, happens for a purpose." I've never quite
understood it. They are willing to give up belief in a deity, but stuff has
to happen for a purpose. Why do we need some kind of cosmic purpose? Humans
are perfectly capable of making their own meanings and directing their own
purposes. I don't want to hear that some kid burned alive an a house fire
because "God (or the Universe) had a plan." I don't want to have anything
to do with a being that has plans that include stuff like that. Personally,
I don't like the idea of having my purposes possibly being thwarted by some
invisible force that has a plan or a purpose laid out *for* me. When the
bumper sticker "Shit Happens" first appeared I absolutely loved it. It was
a joy and a liberation. Sometimes things just happen. There was no purpose
in the little boy being burned to death in the fire, it just happened and
it was a bad thing. There's no need for invisible beings to blame for it.
The universe has a lot going for it. It's very grand and beautiful. I don't
really think it needs one of the species on one of the planets in one of
the solar systems at the edge of one of the galaxies to fantasize something
extra to improve it.
Susan
--------
Always ask. Hang out with people who make you laugh. Love as many people as
you can. Read everything you can get your hands on. Take frequent naps.
Watch as little television as you can stand. Tell people what you want. Do
what you love as much as you can. Dance every day.
--------
Please visit my website:
http://www.telepath.com/susanb
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