Re: Phil Johnson on the Second Law of Thermodynamics

From: DNAunion@aol.com
Date: Mon Nov 20 2000 - 11:39:48 EST

  • Next message: DNAunion@aol.com: "Re: Phil Johnson on the Second Law of Thermodynamics"

    [...]

    >>>DNAunion: NEW STUFF.

    Since we are discussing origin of life stuff again, I recently read something
    I would like to point out and comment on.

    In the chapter being quoted from, David Deamer has just presented several
    paragraphs of detail concerning the following summary. This detail material
    has been omitted for brevity's sake.

    "To summarize, an abundant source of long-chain hydrocarbon components of
    prebiotic membranes is not obvious. On the other hand, one might argue that
    because the origin of cellular life absolutely requires lipidlike hydrocarbon
    derivatives, such molecules must have been available on the early Earth from
    a yet unknown source." (David Deamer, Membrane Compartments in Prebiotic
    Evolution, Chapter 8 of The Molecular Origins of Life: Assembling Pieces of
    the Puzzle, edited by Andre Brack, Cambridge University Press, 1998, p194)

    Can anyone else see the circular reasoning in this? If not, let me give you
    an analogy.

    PROSECUTOR: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the state believes that Mrs.
    Jones' disappearance is not due to her being abducted by a stranger, but
    rather is due to her husband's discarding her body after he savagely killed
    her. Let it first be noted that the state can't present any actual evidence
    that shows Mrs. Jones is dead, but we strongly suspect so: call it a working
    assumption. In addition, we don't have a murder weapon with Mr. Jones'
    fingerprints on it, despite our best searches. But we argue that since Mrs.
    Jones could not have been murdered by her elderly husband without a murder
    weapon being involved, then we can assume that the murder weapon with his
    fingerprints does exist somewhere, and that we just haven't come across it
    yet. The state asks that you sentence Mr. Jones to life in prison without
    the opportunity for parole for his committing of such a brutal and
    unthinkable act."

    Okay, a bit over-dramatic (to say the least), but I think everyone gets the
    point. Take away the preexisting assumption that Mrs. Jones was murdered (or
    analogously, that life arose here on Earth) and the assumption based on it -
    that a murder weapon with Mr. Jones' fingerprints on it must exist (or
    analogously, that an abundant source of long-chain hydrocarbon components
    must have existed) is unfounded, meaningless, and bankrupt. If one is trying
    to demonstrate a basic, underlying assumption, then one shouldn't use
    assumptions drawn solely from that final underlying assumption that he or she
    is trying to validate to argue into existence, from thin air, evidence that
    supports any part of that final underlying assumption.

    >>>Chris: I don't see that the argument is circular at all, but rather that
    it is *not* an argument ...

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    DNAunion: But it is an argument.

    "...one might *argue* that because the origin of cellular life absolutely
    requires lipidlike hydrocarbon derivatives, such molecules must have been
    available on the early Earth from a yet unknown source."

    First, it contains the word argue. Second,it takes the form of a logical
    argument.

    Premise 1: Cellular life originated on Earth
    Premise 2: Cellular life absolutely requires lipidlike hydrocarbon derivatives
    -------------------------------------------
    Conclusion: Therefore, lipidlike hydrocarbon derivatives must have been
    present on the early Earth
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    [...]

    >>>Chris: Also, I'm not at all convinced that they are necessary for the
    origin of cellular life, though they might be necessary for the origin of the
    kind of cellular life that *we* are familiar with. We need to be careful not
    to *assume* that the first life on Earth was much like any life we know today.

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    DNAunion: But it is a safe assumption. By 3.5 billion years ago, life had
    already developed a long way in cellular form. Schopf has identified several
    types of bacteria in the Apex chert from Western Australia, including
    *photosynthetic cyanobacteria*, which were found in complex arrangements.
    The fossils - the oldest found so far - clearly indicate a long evolutionary
    history prior to 3.5 Gya (for example, photosynthesis is considered to not be
    prebiotically plausible, so it had to evolve through very many intermediates
    via slight, successive, incremental enhancements. This would have taken a
    many, many generations, and had to be completed no later than 3.5 Gya).

    In addition, the universal tree of life must be rooted prior to those 3.5
    billion year old fossils, and there are many cellular universals that must
    have appeared near the root: all cells use ribosomes to make proteins, all
    cells' ribosomes are composed of a small and a large subunit, all cells use
    the same amino acid (whether modified or not) to initiate translation, all
    cells (with very few exceptions) use the same 20 amino acids, all cells (with
    very few exceptions) use only left-handed amino acids, all cells use only
    right-handed sugars, all cells (with very few exceptions) use the same
    genetic code, all cells use DNA to store genetic information, all cells
    polymerize DNA in the 5'->3' direction, all cells use the same unidirectional
    flow of biological information (from nucleic acids to proteins, and never in
    the opposite direction), all cells use ATP as energy currency, all three
    domains of cellular life use RNase P, etc. These (and other
    "universalities") all must have existed a good bit BEFORE 3.5 bi
    llion years ago.

    The first cellular life here on Earth was very likely much like todays (at
    least at the most fundamental levels). And depending on the amount of time
    available, the first non-cellular life (a contradiction in many people's
    view) could not have been vastly different if they had to evolve into cells
    so quickly.
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