At 06:39 PM 11/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>To: Susan-Brassfield@ou.edu (Susan Cogan)
>
>Bertvan:
>
> >>http://www.scientificamerican.com/2000/0600issue/0600pawson.html
>
> >>Anyone who believes all this came together by chance mutation and natural
> >>selection would believe in Santa and tooth fairies.
>
>Susan:
> >Thanks for posting this, it's very good. However, you'd better keep
> >an eye out for the Jolly Old Elf. This is from the article:
>
> >"From an evolutionary perspective, the advent of a modular signaling
> >system would be very useful to cells. By mixing and matching existing
> >modules, a cell can generate many molecules and combinations of
> >molecules and can build an array of interconnected pathways without
> >having to invent a huge repertoire of building blocks. What is more,
> >when a new module does arise, its combination with existing modules
> >can increase versatility tremendously--just as adding a new area
> >code to a city turns already assigned phone numbers into entirely new
> >ones for added customers."
>
> >From randomness comes great creativity. What's wrong with that?
>
>Bertvan:
>There is nothing wrong with it, IF creativity actually comes from randomness.
randomness *allows* creativity. It gives you raw material to work with.
Otherwise everything is determined and there's no such thing as an
accident, lucky or otherwise. It's the lucky accidents that make life
interesting. And it's randomness that makes us truly free to choose.
> Do you believe these "modules of signaling systems" themselves arose by
>chance?
yes, in addition to natural selection. Natural selection isn't random.
Neither are the laws of physics. I presume those are somehow involved.
The creativity in evolution comes from the errors, the mistakes. Genes
don't replicate perfectly. The first life-like things had to be able to
replicate, and they had to be able to do it badly so that natural selection
would have something to select.
>I don't think we understand creativity enough to know where it comes
>from. I personally doubt any intelligent system could arise by chance.
not pure chance, certainly, but it would have to have an *element* of chance.
>Cell
>communication, which was what the article is about, involves communication of
>specific information between cells (intelligence). Random signals are
>meaningless. Any system, even a "module", would have to already be rational,
>complex and functioning before natural selection would have anything to
>select.
If you hear a bunch of noise that has words in it, you are going to
"select" the words and discard the noise. We are looking at cells that had
the "words" selected from the noise billions of years ago.
>Having realized you are an icon of courtesy and consideration, Susan,
>compared to other "evolutionists", I vowed I would respond to all you posts.
>If you answered my last post on that other discussion group, I never saw it.
please send it to me privately and I will respond to it publicly on the
appropriate list. I have been assuming for the last several weeks that I am
in your kill file because you never respond to my posts even when they
contain a direct question. I would probably have responded if I had seen
it. Which list? if it was EvolveCreate I find that list so boring I only
have the digest and often just delete it without opening it. The same with
DebunkCreation. I responded in detail to the one you meant to send to
evolutioncreationdebate.
>All my posts were deleted, presumable for being "intentionally ignorant" and
>provoking the "evolutionists" to profanity. I didn't use profanity, but
>apparently I provided overwhelming provocation for others to emit long
>strings of "asshole", "liar", "crap", "bullshit", etc. (I concede that they
>were all very polite to as long as no one disagreed with them.)
ah! this sounds like either EvolveCreate or DebunkCreation. The language
doesn't bother me because I have a mouth like a sailor when provoked (I am
the product of a mixed marriage: a redneck with a hillbilly) but just being
abusive isn't debate and it's debate I enjoy. And watching other people be
abusive is annoying or boring depending on context.
Susan
--------
Always ask. Hang out with people who make you laugh. Love as many people as
you can. Read everything you can get your hands on. Take frequent naps.
Watch as little television as you can stand. Tell people what you want. Do
what you love as much as you can. Dance every day.
--------
Please visit my website:
http://www.telepath.com/susanb
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