http://www.firinn.org/trueorigin/ca_rh_01.htm
Being called an apostate is not as bad as what Carl Froede called me when
in a private e-mail he said I was like my Father Satan! Nor is it as mild
as what Henry Morris called, me 'a compromiser" which sounds slimey like a
politician.
Because of all this namecalling and a refusal to answer a simple, ethical
question privately, I decided to post the note I sent to Russ Humphreys.
By blind copy I am sending it again to Russ, but also to Kurt Wise, John
Baumgardner, and Carl Froede. (I don't think it right to publicise their
e-mail addresses) If any of them would want to answer the simple question
that Russ Humphreys refused to answer, they can either do it privately to
me (and I will relay their answer to this forum) or they can respond to the
note and post it on the reflector directly. Why is it so difficult for a
young-earth creationist to answer a question about ethics?
I would also be interested in the response of any of the young-earthers on
this list to this very simple, morality issue. Is it moral to teach that
which is known to be false?
Here is my note to Russ it was dated 10/11/98. I sent it immediately prior
to catching a plane for my vacation.
Original note:
Russ,
I have a serious question for you.
Christians represent Our Lord Jesus Christ on earth. We are supposed to
represent truth to a lost world. I know that you have heard lots and lots
of claims by young-earth creationists that you know can not be true
scientifically. Given the demand by our God that we live lives which are
above reproach, and given our duty to correct our brothers who are engaging
is such error, what have you done to correct some of the scientifically
erroneous statements made by your fellow YECs. I am not talking here about
Biblically false statements.
Is it MORAL to teach that which we know is false? Is it MORAL to stand by
silently while your fellow Christians teach false things?
Examples:
"A geological fact which is perhaps the greatest problem for those who
choose to believe that the geologic column was deposited uniformly over
millions of years is the lack of meteoric evidence in all but the surface
rocks. This is another well-guarded trade secret that has not leaked out,
but knowledgeable geologists will admit it if questioned directly on the
subject. " ~ Luther D. Sunderland, Darwin's Enigma (Santee, California:
Master Books, 1988), p. 157-158
Meterorites found in the record.
One found during the drilling of an oil well. (J. F. Lovering, "Frequency
of Meteorite falls throughout the Ages," Nature, June 13, 1959, p. 1664-1665)
One found in Miocene rocks of Georgia. E. P. Henderson and C. Wythe Cooke,
"The Sardis (Georgia) Meteorite," Proceedings, U. S. National Museum,
1942, 92:3143, p. 147.
Thorslund, P.; Wickman, F.E. & Nystrom, J.O. (1984) The Ordovician
chondrite from Bruflo, central Sweden; Igeneral description and primary
minerals. Lithos, 17(3): 87-100.
Nystrom, J.O.; Lindstrom, M. & Wickman, F.E. (1989) Discovery of a second
Ordovician meteorite using chromite as a tracer. Nature, 336: 572-574.
Micrometeors:
James Matthew Barnett, Sedimentation Rate of Salt Determined by
Micrometeorite Analysis, M. S. Thesis, Western Michigan University, 1983
and
Thomas A. Mutch, "Abundances of Magnetic Spherules in Silurian and Permian
Salt Samples", Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 1 1966 p. 325
craters
of course there is Chicxulub in Mexico which is buried under lots of
Tertiary section.
See Ames Astroblem, AAPG Sept. 1993, p. 1572
*****
Next issue--the Geologic column doesn't exist:
"Now the geologic column is an idea, not an actual series of rock layers.
Nowhere do we find the complete sequence. Even the walls of the Grand
Canyon included only five of the twelve major systems (one, five, six and
seven, with small portions here and there of the fourth system, the
Devonian." ~ Henry M. Morris and Gary E. Parker, What is Creation Science?,
(El Cajon: Master Books, 1987), p. 163
Wrong, it contains 7 Precambrian, Cambrian, Devonian, Mississippian
Pennsylvanian, Permian, Triassic. Morris and Parker are not counting the
precambrian as the 13th system and Cedar Mountain on the southeas side of
the Canyon is made of Triassic Moenkopi and Shinarump There is also a
small outlier of Triassic Moenkopi at Buggein Tank along the south side of
the Canyon. See also H. Glenn Richards, "Tectonic Evolution of Alaska"
AAPG Jan. 1974, p. 79-105 and Charles Shuchert, Paleogeographic Atlas of
North America, New York: John Wiley and Sons, 1955. to see that large
areas of alaska
The W. H. Hunt Trust Estate Larson #1 will in Section 10 Township 148 N
Range 101 W was drilled to
15,064 feet deep. This well was drilled just west of the outcrop of the
Golden Valley formation
and begins in the Tertiary Fort Union Formation. The various horizons
described above were
encountered at the following depths (Fm=formation; Grp=Group; Lm=Limestone):
Tertiary Ft. Union Fm ...................100 feet
Cretaceous Greenhorn Fm ................4910 feet
Cretaceous Mowry Fm.................... 5370 feet
Cretaceous Inyan Kara Fm................5790 feet
Jurassic Rierdon Fm.....................6690 feet
Triassic Spearfish Fm...................7325 feet
Permian Opeche Fm.......................7740 feet
Pennsylvanian Amsden Fm.................7990 feet
Pennsylvanian Tyler Fm..................8245 feet
Mississippian Otter Fm..................8440 feet
Mississippian Kibbey Lm.................8780 feet
Mississippian Charles Fm................8945 feet
Mississippian Mission Canyon Fm.........9775 feet
Mississippian Lodgepole Fm.............10255 feet
Devonian Bakken Fm.....................11085 feet
Devonian Birdbear Fm...................11340 feet
Devonian Duperow Fm....................11422 feet
Devonian Souris River Fm...............11832 feet
Devonian Dawson Bay Fm.................12089 feet
Devonian Prairie Fm....................12180 feet
Devonian Winnipegosis Grp..............12310 feet
Silurian Interlake Fm..................12539 feet
Ordovician Stonewall Fm................13250 feet
Ordovician Red River Dolomite..........13630 feet
Ordovician Winnipeg Grp................14210 feet
Ordovician Black Island Fm.............14355 feet
Cambrian Deadwood Fm...................14445 feet
Precambrian............................14945 feet
I have the log and the data is available from Petroleum Information Corp.
***next issue direct triangulation of stellar distances
"The greatest distance that can be measured directly by methods of
triangulation, using the two extremes of the earth's orbit as end points on
a base line, is about three hundred light years."Henry M. Morris, Biblical
Basis for Modern Science, (Grand Rapids: Baker Bookhouse, 1984), p. 173
While that might have been true in 1984, there is no excuse to continue
teaching it in 1993:
"Many do not realize that the farthest direct age/distance measurement we
can make in the universe is limited to about three hundred light years,
done by triangulation using the diameter of the earth's orbit as a
baseline. All age/distance measurements beyond that are indirect, and are
based on assumptions which may or may not be valid)." ~ Marvin L. Lubenow,
Bones of Contention, (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1992), p. 201
But triangulation works two ways. Distance to M81 via triangulation of
expanding shell of SN1993J
at 8 months old, the shell moving at 16,000 km/s ring had a diameter of
478+/- 8 microarc sec. Sept. 26, 1993.
on Nov. 22, 1993, ring had diameter of 581+/- 35 microarc seconds
J. M. Marcaide et al, "Discovery of shell-like radio-structure in SN1993J",
Nature, 373, Jan. 5, 1995, p.44-45. This calculates a distance of 3.8+/- .8
Mega parsecs to the supernova.
And:
"Since the ring absolute diameter is (1.27+/- 0.07) X 10 18 cm and
its angular diameter is 1".66 +/- 0."03 (Jakobsen et al. 1991),
we estimate a distance to SN 1987A:d(1987A)=51.2 +/- 3.1 Kpc."
~ N. Panagia, R. Gilmozzi, F. Macchetto, H-M. Adorf and R. P.
Kirshner, "Properties of the SN 1987A Circumstellar Ring and the
Distance to the Large Magellanic Cloud," Astrophysical Journal,
380, Oct. 10, 1991, p. L26
Is it MORAL to teach that which we know is false? Is it MORAL to stand by
silently while your fellow Christians teach false things? Can you stand
before God and our Lord Jesus Christ and say you stood for truth when such
false things are being taught?
I will be offline for the next few days, and will respond then. But I am
sincerely interested in your views on the Christian responsibility to truth.
glenn
Adam, Apes and Anthropology
Foundation, Fall and Flood
& lots of creation/evolution information
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm