At 12:43 AM 8/1/98 -0600, Bill Payne wrote:
>I think Glenn said miracles leave no scientific evidence which we can
>study to verify the supernatural. I would disagree. When the Isralites
>crossed the Jordan, "They took twelve stoones from the middle of the
>Jordan, according to the number of the tribes of the Isralites, as the
>Lord had told Joshua; and they carried them over with them to their
>camp, where they put them down. Joshua set up the twelve stones that
>had been in the middle of the Jordan at the spot where the priests who
>carried the ark of the covenant had stood. And they are there to this
>day. (Joshua 4:8-9)
The laying down of the stones were not miraculous. The drying of the
Jordan was the miracle. So the stones serve to remind people of the miracle
that the water ceased flowing when the feet of the priests touched the
Jordan. The rocks themselves are not evidence of the lack of water i.e.,
are not the evidence of the miracle.
>
>God had the Israelites erect a monument to His miracle in parting the
>Jordan River. In like manner, I believe fossils are a mute testimony to
>the judgement of God against the wickedness of man in the past, which
>resulted in the death of all humans except those in the ark of Noah. I
>further believe that these fossils and most geologic formations are a
>reminder of the future judgement of God against all not within
>(figuratively) the ark of the covenant.
Let me ask you this. What sort of mute testimony do the fossils make when
almost no one who has studied the geologic column believes they were
deposited in the flood? It would seem to me that by insisting that YECs are
infallible interpretors of the Bible, you all are implying that God is a
very poor communicator to the modern world, indeed in your view, God would
be tongue-tied. The 'evidence' He left to warn modern sinners about the
flood is so indecipherable as to leave most people missing the message.
Surely our God, who could raise the dead and create the universe could
leave a clearer message in the rocks than what YECs suggest.
I have often heard the response to the above that all those scientists are
using their atheistic and evolutionary presuppositions to avoid seeing God.
But they are not the ones who cannot explain the CO2 and sulfuric acid
problems of the global flood. The scientific explanations don't have the
problems your views do, so it would appear that YECs (and this included me
when I was a YEC) use their theological presuppositions to avoid scientific
data. I would suggest that unless you can explain the zillions of problems
I keep raising for the flood, your 'mute testimony' idea is useless.
glenn
Adam, Apes and Anthropology
Foundation, Fall and Flood
& lots of creation/evolution information
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm