>But the point is not the norm (it never is when one discusses miraculous
>events). So the fact remains that trying to impose a uniformitarian model
>upon a past miracle is an exercise in futility.
But, I would point out that to claim that God performed the flood
miraculously is to beg the question and the answer. The only way that the
global flood could occur in my opinion is if it is entirely miraculous. A
local flood could occur in a wide variety of ways naturalistically or
miraculously. So the question is which is it global or local? You can't
assume that miraculous = global because miraculous might = local. When
Jesus created the wine (a miracle) he didn't flood the world with wine. It
was a miracle with local effect.
And nowhere does the Bible say "God produced the flood miraculously". That
is merely an interpretation of the Scripture and it may be right or may be
wrong. God very well might have used natural means to create the flood.
>
>
><< Could God have done everything miraculously? Yes. Did He? I
>think not because he would have to arrange things so exactingly that it
>would have the appearance of a deception. >>
>
>Here is where you lose me. Appearance of deception to WHOM? Only those who
>have a preconceived standard about what they expect to find! But that is
>not a valid premise, so the whole house of cards falls.
In the Mesozoic rocks of the western US are layer after layer of dinosaur
tracks. Some of the levels containing the tracks are separated vertically
by merely a few feet and there may be up to 7 or more layers like this.
Other sets of tracks are separated by thousands of feet. If all the 15000+
feet of sediment was deposited by the global flood in a one year period, the
sediment must have been raining down on the dinos at 50+ feet per day. How
did the dinos live and leave their footprints? And how deep was the water?
Afterall footprints prove that the water was not deeper than the dino was
tall. Did God manufacture the dinosaur prints? If he did, and there were no
dinosaurs, then He engaged in deceptive advertising.
><<And if we can't
>trust what he does in the natural world, then how can I trust Him when He
>tells me to believe on His son and I will be saved?>>
>
>The point is you MUST trust him, even when his answers are not what you
>desire, expect or "demand." I find it fascinating that you call a work of
>God deceptive simply because, at a point in history, it was not "natural."
That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the evidence does not
support the catastrophic interpretation in any fashion. A deep global flood
should have buried most animals at the bottom. They should not have had
time to walk around on dry land or even damp land at the rates of deposition
the flood requires. Thus if God did this miraculously, he manufactured
several hundred million dinosaur tracks at various levels throughout the
western US.
>Just what do you think a miracle is?
Just how flexible do you think God's ethics are?
>
>To put it bluntly, this standard can deny Christ rose from the dead
>because, well, how can we believe something that does not follow the
>natural?
Once agaain, that is not what I am saying.
>
><<I don't think that it says that the flood and drying were miraculous. >>
>
> Then what does Gen. 8:1 mean when it says " God made a wind to pass over
>the earth"? Was this a natural or supernatural event?
ANswer my question: Where does it say "The flood was miraculous"? That is
your ASSUMPTION. And unless you make your position equal to God's then you
must admit that your ASSUMPTION is an interpretation. I have a big problem
with many global flood advocates because they decide that they can
infallibly interpret the Scripture and make their interpretation infallible
and unchangable. Assuming that one's interpretation is the only
interpretatio is the sin of making oneself out to be God, which is precisely
what Adam and Eve did.
You cut out my verses that I noted that God says he brings the rain in its
season. That is my answer but you choose to cut that out. If God statement
that He brings the rain in its season, means that every single rainfall is
miraculous, even today, then everything is a miracle and then miracles are
meaningless because we can predict the occurrence of future miracles in the
world.
glenn
Adam, Apes, and Anthropology: Finding the Soul of Fossil Man
and
Foundation, Fall and Flood
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm