> Much as I would like to get into this thread, I've not been able to
> find a niche - until now! I am going to suggest that there has been
> very little meaningful communication because both Randy and Steve
> have different views of what science is. The last sentence above is
> the one I want to pick up on: science deals in facts not belief
> systems. I would suggest that belief systems are at the heart of ALL
> human cognitive activity. Scientists are no exception. The view of
> science as an objective discipline where the scientist is a distand
> impartial observer and analyst is, in my view, unreal. If Randy
> wants to communicate more effectively with Steve, I suggest he digs
> somewhat deeper - going to the belief systems of scientists acting as
> filters on what is observed and what options are deemed within the
> range of acceptability.
Randy and I do have very different views of what science is and how it's
practiced. I, however, participate in the mainstream geologic scientific
community on a daily basis and I believe Randy greatly misrepresents the
science of geology as it's practiced by virtually all geoscientists. In my
opinion, Randy has been misrepresenting the science of geology (when he
talks about uniformitarianism, for example) and not simply disagreeing with
the way it's practiced. There's a difference.
Science deals in BOTH facts and belief systems. Randy was implying that
geologists just sit around and think up theories. It doesn't work that
way. Geology is very much a field-oriented science and theorizing is almost
always data driven. Yes, of course scientists have belief systems and
presuppositions just like everyone else, but I submit that they are much
less blatant and intrusive then are the belief systems and presuppositions
of the creationists (where you have to sign a statement of belief in a
global flood and a young earth before they'll even let you join their
organizations!). Scientists at least make an effort to be objective (even
if total objectivity for humans is practically impossible) by having peer
review systems and publishing discussions and replies in journals to papers
that are controversial. Creationists do not even make an effort to be
objective since they start with a fixed, immutable belief in the way things
occurred.
- Steve.
-- Steven H. Schimmrich Callsign KB9LCG s-schim@uiuc.edu Department of Geology, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 245 Natural History Building, Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 244-1246 http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/s-schim Deus noster refugium