I wrote to Robert,
> Your ability to contort the evidence is quite amazing.
I apologise to Robert. I was reacting to somethings which had been said to
me privately and I should not have done that.
After this message goes out, I am going to leave the reflector for a while.
I may or may not be back in a few months.
I have been on the reflector for about a year and a half and have probably
said about everything I could say to try to move people to realize that
Christianity has made a horrible mistake by positioning us against any and
all observational data. Obviously, I have not had much effect and the
problem may very well be me.
I feel very strongly that Christianity MUST take a new approach to the issue.
Of all the widely accepted views, I find none of them acceptable as a
scientist. The YEC view basically says that all scientific data is
erroneous and tells me to believe a particular interpretation of the Bible.
The view advocated by my good friend Denis removes historicity from the
Scirpture and as far as I am concerned, any reason to believe it. (Sorry my
friend, you didn't convince me ). I would not believe a geologic theory
which I believed to be nonhistorical so I see no reason to beleive the Bible
if it is nonhistorical. The PC which advocates a recent creation of man does
not match the observational data and requires the ignoring of a lot of
biological data. The view advocated by Jim Bell, that we simply say we don't
know but it couldn't have been by evolution, doesn't seem very attractive to
me either. I like to know how things happened and so do most people.
For me as a geoscientist, the issue of the historicity or lack there of for
the Flood, was quite important. None of the Flood views I had ever seen
really solved the observational problems and made the account appear at all
true. I would suggest that unless and until the hypotheses advanced by
Christians are as exacting as those advanced by secular science, we will
continue to be viewed as irrelevant by large segments of society. Just
because we believe in God is no reason to be less exacting in our viewpoints.
I have offered some suggestions whereby those in science can believe that the
Bible is historically accurate and not have to reject scientific data. They
have met with varying levels of approval. Anyone who works in the sciences
knows the tension that is there between what is widely taught cy Christians
and what data they see in their respective field. This is not limited to
geology. Those who do not work in science really don't understand the
chain of logic the data entails and thus they are easily led astray.
I don't see any way that this lack of correspondence between data and the
Biblical story can be corrected within the current structures Christianity
has set up. There is no way that a Christian ministry could even begin to
question the things I am questioning because the financial supporters would
cut off the money and destroy the ministry. Any individual in one of those
ministries who talked about the evidence for human activity in the ancient
fossil record would have to be fired in order to save the ministry. If
anyone doubts this, try to get a job with a conservative Christian ministry
and let them know that you have an outspoken evolutionary viewpoint.Thus, if
God did evolve things as I believe, no Christian ministry could even begin to
proclaim that for fear of what would happen. One ministry I am familiar with,
the leader who does not believe in evolution made the comment once that if he
ever became convinced of evolution, he would keep his mouth shut. For that
reason alone, there is no way that Christian apologetical ministries are
going to be able to really address the scientific problems raised by the data
I have talked about. Thus, the apologetical ministries are forced into the
position of having to explain data away rather than explain it.
But Stephen Jones once said that nobody would buy what I was selling.
That may be true, but I am going to try to continue this Quixotic quest
regardless of the reaction simply because I have seen too many people reject
Christianity because the views it has historically taught have no relevance
to what is believed to be the history of the earth. This is something which
concerns me deeply. The worshippers of the Creator of the universe fear to
believe what the data in the universe really says for fear that it might
disprove the Creator. This is sheer lunacy.
But if I am unable to convince Christians with the educational levels
represented on the reflector that our approach has been wrong, then I am
probably doomed to failure. My naivete led me to think that it was important
to Christians that the Bible be somehow true, in a historical sense. This
may not be the case. It seems to be more important to many Christians that
evolution be wrong rather than for the Bible to be historically true. If
that is the case it explains a post I got from a young lady the other day.
She wrote:
>>you know what ticks me off about you ..is that you keep insisting on
calling your self a believer ..maybe you are ..but when somebody says I
believe in christ and in his interanl life but yet I also believe in
evolution and not in creation ... that does not make sense ..they don't go
together.. Like I said I am not backing off ...<<
And recently I got a note from a young man who said I was no friend of
Christianity. He is wrong. But I think he would go to the mat for that
belief.
To those who have taken the time to challenge, poke, prod and otherwise
discuss things with me, I thank you. You have brought many things to my
attention that otherwise would not have been noticed by me.
To Jim Bell: You and I have not agreed on very much and we have clashed
quite often, sometimes severely. I want to thank you for pushing me into
reading a little of Bloesch. I don't find his view very appealing but
without you I would not have been exposed to those views. I wish you and
your book well.
To Denis, hao pengyou. You and I have traveled the same road but ended up at
different ending. I wish you well and will look for the paper which should
come from your doctoral research. Congratulations on your discovery.
To Stephen Jones: I wish you well even if you won't speak directly to me.
I know that there are some on the reflector who have come to hate my guts. I
am sorry for that, but I can not do more than state what I believe to be the
truth about the data. If a Christian can not say something like "I saw spots
on the sun" because he fears that fellow christians will get mad, then
Christians are the most to be pittied.
I wish everyone well. At some time in the future I will probably be back.
But at least for a while, the reflector might be a more peaceful place.
glenn