RE: [asa] (The Soul) (was: RE: (fall-away) TE and apologetics)

I am afraid you cannot find any good reason to be an anti-Christ and, at the same time, a good person. That is impossibility--unless, of course, you redefine all the terms you have used in your statement. First, you must know Who Christ is and what He did. Afterwards, you must do the opposite of what Christ taught and He did, which would make you into an evil person. The only thing you can do opposite to Christ is that you are not going to be resurrected after you die. That is why He is offering you a free gift.

Moorad
________________________________________
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie [bernie.dehler@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:48 PM
To: asa
Subject: RE: [asa] (The Soul) (was: RE: (fall-away) TE and apologetics)

Ted said:
"As far as I can tell from what people do write, at least what the philosophers and theologians write, I would say that two of the biggest problems are these: what is the "soul" (a biblical and theological and philosophical question)? what is consciousness (a scientific and philosophical question that impinges on biblical and theological questions)? Neither of those presently appears to have a clear answer."

I understand what you mean and appreciate your feedback.

I understand everyone has their strong points, but I also think everyone has their viewpoints.

For example, with evolution, must people also don't know all the recent scientific evidence, yet they still seem to have an opinion (YEC, OEC, TE, etc.). I think the idea/issue of the mind/soul is going to be another similar area of confrontation. And just like the evolution controversy, Christians have different understandings of soul, spirit, how it arises, what it is, etc. (as you said or implied).

For me, this is one of the two biggest things that caused me to change my mind about Christ... so it is going to be a big argument for me going forward. (The other issue is that I think the whole idea of atonement for sin to appease an angry God comes from pagan superstition... which is all about the study of ANE (Ancient Near East) manuscripts and ANE ideas.)

As I build my case against Christianity, those will be the two foundations, I think... because it strikes at the heart of Christianity (atonement and resurrection). The reason I'm building a case is because if I'm going to be an anti-Christ (but still a good person), I better have a good reason for it.

...Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Davis [mailto:TDavis@messiah.edu]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:20 AM
To: asa; Dehler, Bernie
Subject: RE: [asa] (The Soul) (was: RE: (fall-away) TE and apologetics)

I respond very briefly to Bernie, below.

>>> "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com> 9/24/2009 12:28 PM >>>
Ted said:
"My own view is not fully formed; I don't know exactly what I think, relative to "soul" and the Bible, let alone what I think of consciousness"

You say you don't have your mind made up. Could you be open and honest and share what you are struggling with? What prevents you from taking a position, specifically? Is it just that you haven't thought about it, or do you see problems with no answers?

**

Bernie,

It's mostly that I haven't thought as much about this issue/question as I've thought about some other important questions concerning science & Christian faith. You attended the workshop at the Baylor meeting, and even there Deb and I indicated that we wanted to "pass" on discussing some of the things raised by the third of the Faraday DVD segments (the one on neuroscience), b/c neither of us had as much expertise on that one as some of the workshop participants (at least three of whom work in neuroscience or psychology). Speaking for myself, I have always been much more drawn to the physical sciences than to the social and biological sciences; psychology and neuroscience are not subjects about which I can speak with any confidence at all. I have read some of the philosophical and theological literature related to "soul", but I have read none -- none -- of the relevant scientific literature. There's only so much that one can do in a lifetime, and I doubt I will ever correc!

 t that deficiency in my lifetime.

Are there problems without answers? Well, I am in no position to speak about that, given what I just said. On the other hand, if there were no problems without answers -- as yet -- then no one would be writing about this. As far as I can tell from what people do write, at least what the philosophers and theologians write, I would say that two of the biggest problems are these: what is the "soul" (a biblical and theological and philosophical question)? what is consciousness (a scientific and philosophical question that impinges on biblical and theological questions)? Neither of those presently appears to have a clear answer. Most philosophers and neuroscientists are committed to a materialistic answer, but that IMO is an a priori commitment and not a scientific conclusion. We'll have to wait and see what transpires.

Ted

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Received on Thu Sep 24 15:14:30 2009