RE: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

Dave said:
"But God didn't decide."

God didn't decide to create the universe? Does that mean the universe is eternal like God, or that God didn't have a choice in the matter (beyond his control)?

I can see someone saying 'we don't know' but you seem to be saying that you know- that God didn't make a decision. So I'm curious as to what you mean by that.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:45 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

But God didn't decide. You are making him in your image.
Dave (ASA)

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:28:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:
"You're asserting change when there was none, Creation did not change the deity, who is eternally (timelessly) outside of time."

My point is that changing one's mind is also a change, and you said all change involves time. So how can God be outside of time if at one point he decides something new- to make a creation? We know he made this decision at a unique point, because creation is not eternal. So since God decided to do something before the big-bang happened and before our time zone was created, doesn't that logically prove that God is alos intime? In reality, there is more than we know of- how God operates, his environment, and/or the universe generator.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:25 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

Bernie,
You're asserting change when there was none, Creation did not change the deity, who is eternally (timelessly) outside of time. Unless you posit a bubble before the Big Bang, that is, tne Big Bang was not the real or absolute beginning, there was no before. Time began with the Big Bang. However, I don't wonder that you don't grasp this for it runs totally counter to all human experience.
Dave (ASA)

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:19:12 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:
"...but anything that changes is in some kind of time."

Then that means that God is in time before the big bang, with which you would disagree.

This is because God changed before the big-bang. There was a 'time' when the big-bang didn't yet happen (since time began with the big bang). And another time prior to the big-bang in which God set-off the big bang. This is a change in God (doing something) outside the creation of our time zone, yet he is supposed to be outside of time. If the multiverse generator can be in a different time zone, then I guess likewise God could also be. What's good for the goose is good for the gander- goose being multiverse and gander being God. If God is beyond time, then maybe also the multiverse generator is likewise.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:54 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

Bernie,
The bubble may not be in our universe's time, since they are not connected so that one can move between them, but anything that changes is in some kind of time. So every universe that makes up the multiverse is in its own time.
Dave (ASA)

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:
Dave said:
"As I understand it, the "bubble maker" may be a different kind of stuff than our universe is made of, but is changing and so must be temporal."

In order for the bubble generator to be "temporal" it would have to be in time, but we just said it is outside of time since time (at least "our time" or "time as we know it") is an emergent property of this universe... of this universe's big bang. The time (that we know of and experience) did not exist prior to the big-bang. Correct?

...Bernie

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Received on Thu Sep 17 11:45:02 2009