Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

Bernie,
You insist on putting God in time. But time BEGAN with the Big Bang, or
by whatever preceded the Big Bang as a multiverse. But there seems to be
no reasonable answer to how long the universes were bubbling. In the
usual view, on the contrary, there was no before the Big Bang, though our
language does not accommodate this thought. But with God there is no
before, no after, no change. You cannot imagine this, so you try to deny
it. The fact is that there are many things we cannot imagine, but we can
think about them. You cannot imagine a point, but you posit that the dot
you make (it necessarily has all three dimensions) is dimensionless. You
also posit that there are an infinite number of points in a geometrical
line, but that it is only one point across anyplace on its course.
Dave (ASA)

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:44:12 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
Dave said:
“But God didn't decide.”

God didn’t decide to create the universe? Does that mean the universe is
eternal like God, or that God didn’t have a choice in the matter (beyond
his control)?
 
I can see someone saying ‘we don’t know’ but you seem to be saying that
you know- that God didn’t make a decision. So I’m curious as to what you
mean by that.
 
…Bernie
 

From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:45 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2
 
But God didn't decide. You are making him in your image.
Dave (ASA)
 
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:28:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
“You're asserting change when there was none, Creation did not change the
deity, who is eternally (timelessly) outside of time.”
 
My point is that changing one’s mind is also a change, and you said all
change involves time. So how can God be outside of time if at one point
he decides something new- to make a creation? We know he made this
decision at a unique point, because creation is not eternal. So since
God decided to do something before the big-bang happened and before our
time zone was created, doesn’t that logically prove that God is alos
intime? In reality, there is more than we know of- how God operates, his
environment, and/or the universe generator.
 
…Bernie
 

From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:25 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2
 
Bernie,
You're asserting change when there was none, Creation did not change the
deity, who is eternally (timelessly) outside of time. Unless you posit a
bubble before the Big Bang, that is, tne Big Bang was not the real or
absolute beginning, there was no before. Time began with the Big Bang.
However, I don't wonder that you don't grasp this for it runs totally
counter to all human experience.
Dave (ASA)
 
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:19:12 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
“…but anything that changes is in some kind of time.”
 
Then that means that God is in time before the big bang, with which you
would disagree.
 
This is because God changed before the big-bang. There was a ‘time’ when
the big-bang didn’t yet happen (since time began with the big bang). And
another time prior to the big-bang in which God set-off the big bang.
This is a change in God (doing something) outside the creation of our
time zone, yet he is supposed to be outside of time. If the multiverse
generator can be in a different time zone, then I guess likewise God
could also be. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander- goose
being multiverse and gander being God. If God is beyond time, then maybe
also the multiverse generator is likewise.
 
…Bernie
 

From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:54 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2
 
Bernie,
The bubble may not be in our universe's time, since they are not
connected so that one can move between them, but anything that changes is
in some kind of time. So every universe that makes up the multiverse is
in its own time.
Dave (ASA)
 
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
Dave said:
“As I understand it, the "bubble maker" may be a different kind of stuff
than our universe is made of, but is changing and so must be temporal.”

In order for the bubble generator to be “temporal” it would have to be in
time, but we just said it is outside of time since time (at least “our
time” or “time as we know it”) is an emergent property of this universe…
of this universe’s big bang. The time (that we know of and experience)
did not exist prior to the big-bang. Correct?
 
…Bernie
 
 

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Received on Thu Sep 17 15:00:04 2009