RE: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

In the "Crisis of Faith DVD" (from the ASA conference) it was mentioned how some LHC experiments may shed light on the multiverse theory, so it is not 100% purely speculative... so it isn't a religious belief only.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Schwarzwald
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:00 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

In that case, Bernie, then all talk of multiverses are supernatural speculations - since anything beyond our universe (and certainly 'outside of time') has typically been called such, before it was necessary to turn to such ideas to potentially account for the Big Bang/Fine-tuning. Ergo, a multiverse generator is supernatural. Indeed, why not go the whole nine yards and - since we're now imagining an entity capable of 'creating universes' - outright speculate that what we're talking about may actually BE God. Complete with omnipotence, omniscience, etc.

Good for the gander, indeed.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> wrote:

"...but anything that changes is in some kind of time."

Then that means that God is in time before the big bang, with which you would disagree.

This is because God changed before the big-bang. There was a 'time' when the big-bang didn't yet happen (since time began with the big bang). And another time prior to the big-bang in which God set-off the big bang. This is a change in God (doing something) outside the creation of our time zone, yet he is supposed to be outside of time. If the multiverse generator can be in a different time zone, then I guess likewise God could also be. What's good for the goose is good for the gander- goose being multiverse and gander being God. If God is beyond time, then maybe also the multiverse generator is likewise.

...Bernie

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From: dfsiemensjr [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com<mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:54 PM

To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
Subject: Re: [asa] (bubble generators outside of time?) Meyer on C-SPAN2

Bernie,

The bubble may not be in our universe's time, since they are not connected so that one can move between them, but anything that changes is in some kind of time. So every universe that makes up the multiverse is in its own time.

Dave (ASA)

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> writes:

Dave said:
"As I understand it, the "bubble maker" may be a different kind of stuff than our universe is made of, but is changing and so must be temporal."

In order for the bubble generator to be "temporal" it would have to be in time, but we just said it is outside of time since time (at least "our time" or "time as we know it") is an emergent property of this universe... of this universe's big bang. The time (that we know of and experience) did not exist prior to the big-bang. Correct?

...Bernie

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Received on Wed Sep 16 11:31:06 2009