"I suspect Dr Campbell will tell you an analysis of intelligence isn't allowed by science."
Well, I would think of at least one place that "intelligence is studied as science" is in the field of Psychiatry. It is all about studying the brain and how/why it thinks. That would likely be just one of many examples.
...Bernie
________________________________________
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:38 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (evolution of ideas) Evolution Conference Washington, DC - language confusion
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com> wrote:
Gregory said:
"Please explain or describe to me the 'mechanism' or 'method' by which 'ideas evolve.' If you'd like, pick an example or just to speak abstractly or theoretically."
That is so easy.
Look at any modern product, such as a computer. All the parts- from hardware to software, evolved. That is, more complex ideas arose based on previous simpler ideas.
Idea evolution formula:
Previous idea + insight from thinking = new idea.
Repeat over and over, endlessly.
You object to the "insight from thinking" part as if evolution can't have intelligence as a part of the mechanism. That's where you go wrong. Even in biological evolution, in higher forms of animals, natural selection involves intelligence. For example, certain lion kings killing other males to maintain their dominance. That is driven by intelligence.
Hahaha. So, it seems you may have just advocated ID in the exact same way I always did. Completely able to be analyzed by science. Unless you are advocating its intelligence without design. But what is design? Design is forseeing the future, and saying "I am in state A right now, I want to be in state B, what can I do to get from A to B? which wouldn't otherwise happen if I don't apply intelligence? Thats *all* that ID is. Even birds exhibit this. They design things that wouldnt otherwise happen if they didnt apply their intelligence.
I believe there are also similar examples at the level of bugs... but don't want to spend time looking it up just now.
Dr. Campbell may even be able to tell you some things that clams do, using their intelligence, to stay alive (such as migration?).
I suspect Dr Campbell will tell you an analysis of intelligence isn't allowed by science.
...Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Gregory Arago
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:55 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu; Randy Isaac
Subject: Re: [asa] Evolution Conference Washington, DC - language confusion
Hi Randy,
Please explain or describe to me the 'mechanism' or 'method' by which 'ideas evolve.' If you'd like, pick an example or just to speak abstractly or theoretically. Otherwise, it is rather easy to dismiss you as having wax in your ears; you listen, but hear nothing I say.
Ideas do not 'evolve'. Sure, they change. But 'change' and 'evolution' are not the same thing.
There has been zero willingness on your part to confront this reality, unfortunately, and now the only option left is to assume it is a willful denial of knowledge on your part. Every single person I've spoken with on this issue 'gets it.' Perhaps the problem is the medium of communication?
I write directly like this, since you were recently the President of ASA and if you are going to say something like "The title...seem[s] appropriate" as if that has authority, when I made a clear argument against it, then you should be able to explain your view. I don't think you can and I submit that you are displaying a lack of 'proper tools' to evaluate the topic. But I say this, of course, with due respect and humility for other aspects of your participation and contribution to 'science(, philosophy) and religion' discourse. The conference could be a great one for what it is, but this doesn't excuse the misworded title.
Do you think 'ideas evolve,' Randy Isaac: yes or no? If yes, what gives you such confidence to say apples (biological entities) are oranges (ideas) or vice versa? Evolutionary theory 'evolves' you say, Randy?
Yours disappointed (again and again) by American evolutionistic dogma,
Gregory
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Received on Tue Sep 15 11:45:32 2009
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